Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Avengers >> View Post
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Post By
Reverend Meteor

In Reply To
Unstable Molecule

Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,085
Subj: Re: Avengers Who Are... Damaged Goods.
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 at 08:05:48 pm EDT (Viewed 11 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Avengers Who Are... Damaged Goods.
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 at 03:59:36 pm EDT (Viewed 305 times)



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        I may be the only person who very much liked him initially, but I find myself recalling what an unusual and daring choice Doctor Druid was for the team back in the final days of Roger Stern's run. Anthony Druid was not at all atypical Avengers material, and yet thanks largely to Roger Sterns skill with character and plotting he seemed like such a natural risk to take at that point I acceptd his entry to the team in the same spirit I accepted Stern's other choices with Captain Marvel and Starfox. Superhero teams, especially The Avengers, have always enjoyed taking chances with the most unlikely of membership candidates. And yet looking back from todays perspective how many of these maverick choices were successful in their own right? For instance as it stands now would the likes of Starfox, The Swordsman or Doctor Druid be acceptable with the audience and team dynamic considering everything done with the characters since they were Avengers first...?

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          How does an Avenger become Damaged Goods? And which ex-members do you consider to be so damaged (or particularly problematic) as to be difficult to revive for the team?

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        Scarlet Witch (never recovered from what Byrne did to her)

      Agreed.

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        Vision (ditto)

      Agreed.

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        Mantis (she got pimped out by trees)

      She had a nice renaissance for awhile in DnA's GotG. But then she disappeared again.

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        Carol Danvers...I mean they've made her a popular character again...but the whole Marcus thing ruined her. So did Rogue stealing her memories. The wonderful character from the original Ms. Marvel series really isn't there anymore and Carol's just a pod person.

      Yeah. I just can't get over that story. Plus I don't appreciate Marvel's attempts to make her their Wonder Woman. I think that role belongs to She-Hulk.

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        Moondragon...I think that time she raped Thor kind of ruins her. She's not much better than Marcus. I kind of felt relived when they made her a lesbian...it made her seem less rapey.

      Again, I liked her in GotG, and I liked her in a relationship with Phyla-Vell.

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        Hank Pym...he'll never get over the slap. Peter Parker can backhand his pregnant wife but one devil annulment later and there's no reason to ever bring it up again. Maybe if Pym had Mephisto as his divorce lawyer his career would have been better for it.

      This one I disagree with. My first exposure to Pym was in WCA's redemption arc. I felt he was redeemed entirely, but then subsequent writers kept bringing up the slap. That made me dislike the work of those writers. Also - I really liked Slott's oddball take on the guy in Mighty Avengers.

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        Sersi...her popularity never really recovered from going crazy after the whole Gatherers/Dane romancing Crystal stuff.

      Took a break from comics in the 90's, so I missed her whole tenure on Avengers. I would think she would suffer from Monica Rambeau Syndrome - too powerful for most writers to know what to do with.

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        Justice...Busiek ruined the character for me. Nicieza had turned Vance into a great character in New Warriors and Busiek just pooped all over it. He got over being a fanboy...for God sakes he ran the New Warriors and had spent a year in jail for killing his abusive father. He'd grown past being the geek.

      Never read a lot of New Warriors, but I definitely didn't like him on the Avengers.

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        Captain America...Hickman just recently ruined him utterly for me. His irrational attitude towards the Illuminati and putting the entire multiverse in danger to further a grudge made me really dislike him. I mean if Cap wasn't such a dick the multiverse might have survived.

      Oh, the agreement.... Now Movie Cap is the only Cap for me. Comics Cap is a reckless, sanctimonious moron.

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        Rage...this never seems to come up when he's lending a hand to the Avengers but in New Warriors he did execute the gang leader responsible for his grandmother's murder and then Night Thrasher 1 helped him cover it up. That said...I would have done the same thing.

      Again, I missed his whole tenure. Not that sorry about it - I always thought that Nova (Dick Rider) should have had first crack at being an Avenger (moreso than Rage or Justice). Annihilation proved me right - while Steve Rogers and Tony Stark squabbled and wrestled in the dirt, Nova was standing tall and saving the entire galaxy.



Rich has never been called Dick Rider. Nor should he be unless he becomes a gay porn star.


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    I would also add Starfox to the list (like Daveym hinted at). Unfortunately I think it was Roger Stern himself who ruined the guy, the moment he revealed the roofie powers in #248.


I was admonished on the board several months back for implying Starfox is a bit rapey.

To be fair they did always try to explain he wasn't in fact a rapist...the power still kind of bothers me. It's like Marcus Immortus all over again. Marcus said he only subtly influenced Carol with his machines and that she already had feelings. Ok so Starfox only uses the power on people he has a shot with...but what if his powers made a woman who just thought he was cute sleep with him when she wouldn't have otherwise? If he has the power to influence women romantically then what is the point of having the power if he only uses it on the women he doesn't need to use it on?


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    You could make a case that Jan and Clint are ruined for their poorly conceived tryst. Very poor form, considering that Hank is their good friend and was hurt by their actions. Then again, you could just ignore anything written by Chuck Austen for your own good. Ditto for She-Hulk and the Juggernaut (UGH!!!).


He smacked Jan. Can't feel sorry for him.

I think they revealed Juggernaut slept with an alternate reality She-Hulk. Best to just go with that explanation. But hey Jan banged Mangeto and (as recently revealed) Deadpool.


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    I would make a stronger case that Clint is ruined for what he did to a brain-damaged Wanda. That was ugly in the extreme. It's hard to look at the guy the same way now. He has also lost his brashness and his humor, which is what I liked about him. They've made him into his Ultimate counterpart, and now I really don't care for him.


Didn't he just rape a Wanda robot that thought it had amnesia?


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    Sentry deserves a place on any list like this.



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    And lastly, Namor. After throwing in with Thanos and the Cabal, he is now a full-fledged villain. He can never be an Avenger again. The good news is that he's FAR more interesting as a villain.


I don't see Namor as a villain. I don't like Namor as a villain. I've always seen Quicksilver and Namor as contrarians and jerks but not truly evil.


I liked his series in the late 60's and 70's. He's really NOT a villain. He has his own code of honor that is separate from the regular good evil paradigm...he's a king. But even as a king he was more than fair (how many times did he gives Byrrah and Attuma a second chance?) Hickman really ruined him IMO but I think Namor had been devolved into this cynical hateful snarker much earlier. Namor used to value life even if he didn't always agree with the surface dwellers. Recent writers have removed Namor's honor and made him a twisted hateful man who revels in inflicting misery on his enemies and indifferent to the people caught in his wake. That's not the Namor I know.





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