Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Avengers >> View Post
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In Reply To
Reverend Meteor

Subj: Re: Avengers Who Are... Damaged Goods.
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 at 01:00:22 pm EDT (Viewed 4 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Avengers Who Are... Damaged Goods.
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 at 08:52:34 am EDT (Viewed 16 times)

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    Quote:

    I may be the only person who very much liked him initially, but I find myself recalling what an unusual and daring choice Doctor Druid was for the team back in the final days of Roger Stern's run. Anthony Druid was not at all atypical Avengers material, and yet thanks largely to Roger Sterns skill with character and plotting he seemed like such a natural risk to take at that point I acceptd his entry to the team in the same spirit I accepted Stern's other choices with Captain Marvel and Starfox. Superhero teams, especially The Avengers, have always enjoyed taking chances with the most unlikely of membership candidates. And yet looking back from todays perspective how many of these maverick choices were successful in their own right? For instance as it stands now would the likes of Starfox, The Swordsman or Doctor Druid be acceptable with the audience and team dynamic considering everything done with the characters since they were Avengers first...?



    Quote:
    How does an Avenger become Damaged Goods? And which ex-members do you consider to be so damaged (or particularly problematic) as to be difficult to revive for the team?


Scarlet Witch (never recovered from what Byrne did to her)

Vision (ditto)

Mantis (she got pimped out by trees)

Carol Danvers...I mean they've made her a popular character again...but the whole Marcus thing ruined her. So did Rogue stealing her memories. The wonderful character from the original Ms. Marvel series really isn't there anymore and Carol's just a pod person.

Moondragon...I think that time she raped Thor kind of ruins her. She's not much better than Marcus. I kind of felt relived when they made her a lesbian...it made her seem less rapey.

Hank Pym...he'll never get over the slap. Peter Parker can backhand his pregnant wife but one devil annulment later and there's no reason to ever bring it up again. Maybe if Pym had Mephisto as his divorce lawyer his career would have been better for it.

Sersi...her popularity never really recovered from going crazy after the whole Gatherers/Dane romancing Crystal stuff.

Justice...Busiek ruined the character for me. Nicieza had turned Vance into a great character in New Warriors and Busiek just pooped all over it. He got over being a fanboy...for God sakes he ran the New Warriors and had spent a year in jail for killing his abusive father. He'd grown past being the geek.

Captain America...Hickman just recently ruined him utterly for me. His irrational attitude towards the Illuminati and putting the entire multiverse in danger to further a grudge made me really dislike him. I mean if Cap wasn't such a dick the multiverse might have survived.

Rage...this never seems to come up when he's lending a hand to the Avengers but in New Warriors he did execute the gang leader responsible for his grandmother's murder and then Night Thrasher 1 helped him cover it up. That said...I would have done the same thing.



Well, there's an argument to be made that Marvel is damaged goods, ever since they gave decision making power to Joe Quesada.

As for the Avengers in particular, they've obviously butchered Wonder Man. I can't stomach looking at the Beast since they turned him into a dog. Starfox as a rapist is repugnant(and not consistent with his original characterization). Making Hawkeye more like his movie character is a fatal flaw(because Renner's portrayal is three layers of boring).

I've already disagreed with the Reverend on Pym, but I also never felt that Wanda and Vision were ruined by Byrne. Busiek did very well with both those characters. It was Bendis that took a torch to them.

Frankly, I don't know why anyone who enjoyed the Avengers in the '70s, '80s, and '90s would even read the contemporary stuff. Truly awful.


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