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Subj: Re: Avengers Who Are... Damaged Goods.
Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 at 04:53:19 pm EDT (Viewed 6 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Avengers Who Are... Damaged Goods.
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 at 01:00:22 pm EDT (Viewed 4 times)
Quote:Well, there's an argument to be made that Marvel is damaged goods, ever since they gave decision making power to Joe Quesada.
Quote:As for the Avengers in particular, they've obviously butchered Wonder Man. I can't stomach looking at the Beast since they turned him into a dog. Starfox as a rapist is repugnant(and not consistent with his original characterization). Making Hawkeye more like his movie character is a fatal flaw(because Renner's portrayal is three layers of boring).
Quote:I've already disagreed with the Reverend on Pym, but I also never felt that Wanda and Vision were ruined by Byrne. Busiek did very well with both those characters. It was Bendis that took a torch to them.
How can you disagree about Wanda and Vision
They were practically unreadable from the late 80's to the early 2000's.
I like Byrne (which no one else does) but he did ruin Wanda and Vision. Utterly. He turned Vision into Data from TNG and drove Wanda insane...she even gave Simon an evil hanndjob in front of Agatha when she went around the bend!
Busiek tried to stabilize them and make them readable again. But really...the damage was already done. And his stupid retcon that Byrne was both right and wrong about the Vision and the Human Torch not being the same robot was just lazy and non committal....and Wanda looked like a stripper at a stag party half the time and was back to romancing that creep Simon.
It's not like Wanda was in any way compelling after Byrne (except for Busiek) nor was she interesting after Busiek. Busiek's run was the outlier in decades of crap writing for Wanda.
Wanda and Vision stopped being Wanda and Vision in Byrne's run. Now they're pod people whose motivations never make any sense. They've lost their minds, been recreated...they're like Theseus's Ship...every part of them has been replaced. Wanda's no longer a wife, a mother, the daughter of Magneto, her reputation has been ruined, her mentor Agatha is dead. She's been stripped of everything. And Vision got it even worse...his entire personality was wiped for YEARS.
Quote:Frankly, I don't know why anyone who enjoyed the Avengers in the '70s, '80s, and '90s would even read the contemporary stuff. Truly awful.
The 90's weren't anything to be proud of.