Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Avengers >> View Post
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To

Subj: Re: Are the Movie Avengers too white?
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 at 03:40:56 pm EDT (Viewed 179 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Are the Movie Avengers too white?
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 at 04:15:31 pm EDT (Viewed 6 times)


      The civil rights movement started earlier. It just culminated in important actions being taken in the 60s. Anyway, the point here is that most superheroes from the 60s are white because of historical racism. Using only those heroes today is a reflection of that racism. I'm not saying Marvel should have made these characters a different race, but this cast is clearly not diverse and doesn't reflect the times today.

    Important POLITICAL actions being taken in the sixties. Corporate America is always the very last to respond to changing times, because they have a lot of money on the line. Change scares them. They routinely wait until they see how entrenched the new times become before taking any action(for the most part).

That's an explanation, not an excuse.

    And I don't think you realize how offensive your opinion is. Claiming that superheroes from the sixties are only white because of systemic racism tars everyone with the same brush. And that includes Stan Lee, who had carte blanche when creating characters. In his own words, "I was the editor, all my ideas made it to print." Does that mean you believe Stan Lee is a racist?

I don't think Stan Lee is a racist in the sense that he consciously disliked one race more than another, but he was racist in that he was a product of growing up in a racist time period and accepted the status quo to a large extent and this included a lack of diversity in Marvel's cast at the time. That said, he wrote a very moving story about the black condition in Silver Surfer #5.

    He created the Avengers, and the first ten were white. And then came T'Challa. Four years into the title, and they had their first black member, who stayed for the next sixty odd issues. It seems to me the black population was therefore represented(in numbers comparable to their percentage of the population).

No. There were 159 million whites and 19 million blacks in the U.S. in the 1960s. So blacks made up 11% of the population. The first 11 Avengers were white so that when Black Panther joined as the 12th Avenger, as a proportion of all Avengers up to that point, he made the Avengers 8% black. For the first 4 years of Avengers comics, the team was all white.


      I hope you're just being facetious and not serious.

    Facetious? No. Chad very clearly pointed out the banner as being "white as the Klan in winter." Who chose that banner? Who didn't include any of the black cast members(Fury, Falcon and War Machine)? If Chad wants to call attention to the banner as being racist, then who's banner is it? If you're going to scream racism, then be clear about who you're accusing.

In case you didn't notice, the characters are all members of the Avengers team. Fury is not and so wouldn't belong. Falcon and War Machine only joined at the very end of the last Avengers movie and had minimal screen time so in terms of importance to the Avengers franchise so far, are pretty much dead last. In other words, that banner is pretty representative of the movie Avenger characters so far.


      That analogy is completely ridiculous on the face of it. A basketball team is pulled together mostly based on the merit of the players. The Avengers are fictional characters who can be anything the writers want them to be.

    Ah, so you're saying that diversity is only an issue when dealing with fictional characters?

No, I didn't say that. Nothing in my statement quantified the limitation of diversity EXCEPT on professional sports teams.

    Good. Then you won't mind if Hollwood's casting is based on personal merit, and not the color of the actor's skin?

That doesn't even make sense. Hollywood is casting for FICTIONAL characters. In any case, Hollywood casting decisions often have more to do with box office draw, demographic appeal, and relationships with agents and who you know than with actual acting prowess. So yes, I wish casting decisions were more based on merit of acting ability, but we all know that's only a small part of it. Otherwise any number of awful actors out here wouldn't have work.

How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfMiOlIUGQw
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