Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Avengers >> View Post
Post By
The Voice of Reason

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 564
In Reply To
America's Captain 

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139
Subj: Re: All of them.
Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 at 05:12:27 pm EST (Viewed 247 times)
Reply Subj: Re: All of them.
Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 at 08:10:10 pm EST (Viewed 305 times)

Previous Post

    Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.

Me too. Some of these writers are writing the Marvel heroes like sitcom characters. On a sitcom, the characters are always to some extent moronic. They create stupid situations by being stupid. (Incidentally, I hate most sitcoms for that very reason. I hate watching stupid people be stupid.) Marvel heroes generally should not be presented as moronic.

Unfortunately the Silver Age writers laid down a precedent for one bit of stupidity: hot tempers. Ben, Johnny, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Warren Worthington, and some other heroes had hot tempers which would cause them to lash out unreasonably, stomp away in a huff, and do other silly things. Later writers would take this aspect and expand upon it, thinking they had solid precedent in the Silver Age. What these later writers didn't grasp was the inborn restraint of the heroic nature. The Thing generally would never, while stomping away in a huff, demolish some poor guy's vegetable stand. Not under Stan Lee (once Ben's heroic nature had been fleshed out) and probably not under Roy Thomas. Continue down the line of writers and you may find some example of Ben (and not a mind-controlled Ben) lashing out blindly at some innocent bystander's bread and butter. As soon as you find that, you will have found the point where the writers have ceased to understand where the fine line is.

Heroes do not do harm to civilians. Not even to their property. Not on purpose. This is the great principle. If Ben really needed to blow off some steam, he'd find some bad guys to pummel. Destroying bad guy property is allowed. Smashing their guns and tanks. Beating them into unconsciousness. All fine.

As for other forms of stupidity - they shouldn't occur. A stupid hero would soon be a dead hero. The weaker a hero is, the more intelligent that hero must be in order to survive. Hawkeye should be presented as a brilliant tactician brimming over with street smarts. He goes up against all comers no matter how powerful and all he has is a bow and arrows. Without tactical genius and exceptional street smarts he would be dead.

While I enjoyed Fraction's Hawkeye, it wasn't really Hawkeye at all. Much like the good Captain said, Hawkeye, be it Avenger, Defender or/especially the Thunderbolts, was a smarter man than the hero presented in that book and subsequent books, in all honesty, we haven't see much of the real Hawkeye in the last 10 years or so.

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