Avengers >> View Post
·
Post By
katefan

Member Since: Thu Nov 08, 2018
Posts: 56
In Reply To
America's Captain 
Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139
Subj: Re: To what extent do you think of these characters as Avengers?
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 at 09:47:41 am EST (Viewed 267 times)
Reply Subj: To what extent do you think of these characters as Avengers?
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 at 05:53:43 am EST (Viewed 449 times)

Previous Post

And why? What's your threshold? Does Cap have to ratify it? If not Cap, then does Iron Man, Thor, or the Wasp have to ratify it? Can Hawkeye ratify? Black Widow? Black Panther? Scarlet Witch? Must a quorum of Avengers vote? What constitutes a quorum?

The above are in-story reasons. Do you have any meta reasons? For example, if a character was only an Avenger during a certain era (or under a certain writer or pair of writers) and then was promptly dropped, do the in-story reasons get trumped by meta ones?

Characters:

Spider-Man - Bendis put him on the page a lot, as did Hickman. The No Surrender writers didn't use him. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he doesn't seem to consider himself an Avenger as far as I can tell, bearing in mind I don't buy his books.

Wolverine - Bendis put him on the page a lot. Did Hickman? The No Surrender writers didn't use him, because he was dead. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him, I guess because he was dead. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he was dead and I think he's getting a fresh start, clumsy as that that fresh start may be. Also, and to be frank, I never really believed in him as in Avenger. Bendis never convinced me.

Luke Cage - Bendis put him on the page a lot. Did Hickman? The No Surrender writers didn't use him. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he doesn't seem to consider himself an Avenger as far as I can tell, bearing in mind I don't buy his books.

Starfox - I don't know how he got on the team. Bendis didn't use him. Did Hickman? Being an Avenger just seemed like a very temporary gig for this immortal character. I can't imagine that he thinks of himself proudly as an Avenger.

She-Hulk - I don't know how she got on the team. I don't think Bendis or Hickman used her. Did they? And yet, if the call went out for Avengers to Assemble, I feel confident She-Hulk would answer the call, and all would acknowledge her right to do so. I know Aaron Belphegore is using her, but let's face it, he's obviously doing it because he can't have the Hulk and there needs to be a Hulkish character because the movies trump all. Also he's completely violating her essential concept. Funny how the SJW is so ready to commit metatextual rape.

Any others you want to discuss in this vein?

It seems I don't buy into the sacred notion of, "Once an Avenger, always an Avenger." To me, at a meta level, some writers have their pet favorites, and when those writers leave the book, their pet favorites leave the mythos. When some later writer tries to make a big deal of the fact that, say, Starfox was an Avenger, it rings false and cheesy to me.



Funny that you should mention some of these characters as I was going through my comic collection and came across Roger Stern's run on The Avengers where She Hulk and Starfox were both introduced as team members.

I loved She Hulk both as an Avenger and member of the FF, the eighties was the high water mark for her especially when John Byrne gave her her own series (And she often broke the fourth wall.). I think it's terrible what they've done with her in the recent comic and Avengers. There is nothing wrong with strong, sexy women in comics but apparently we're supposed to be ashamed of liking that sort of thing.

Starfox? Eh, he was just...there. Like you said, he was a pet character the writer liked and he went away when Stern left. I think he was around though because at the time there was a storyline where Nebula was trying to take over Thanos' legacy (Thanos was dead at this point. Then he got better. You know, comics.).

Also during Stern's run Spider Man had an awesome adventure with the Avengers and I'd have to read those comics again but honestly I'd have to read it again to figure out why Spidey didn't join the team at the time. I think it was a really moronic reason and obviously editorial mandate to keep Marvel's flagship character off the flagship super hero title. Spidey belongs on the team, but only if he's written as a true top tier character. I hate it when writers dismiss him as a joke.

Luke Cage. Eh, never really saw him as an Avenger. Bendis upped his power level which annoyed me because Cage was always a street level hero analogous to Iron Fist and Daredevil.

Wolverine. Bull crap. Wolverine never belonged on the team. He is a killer and I can't see other Avengers outside of maybe Thor being comfortable with him around.

I don't think there is anything wrong with writers having "pet" characters, it's something that's been done for decades in the comic. If writers didn't do it we wouldn't have gotten characters like Patsy Walker/Hellcat. She Hulk wouldn't have risen to prominence without guys like Stern giving her exposure. Avengers should not just be there to showcase Marvel's A-listers, it should be there to introduce new characters as well as dust off B-listers to see who might capture people's imagination. So yeah, while I don't think Luke Cage was Avengers material I can't fault Bendis for giving him a shot.


Posted with Google Chrome 70.0.3538.77 on Windows 10
Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2018 Powermad Software
All the content of these boards Copyright © 1996-2018 by Alvaro Ortiz and Dave Galanter. Software Copyright © 2003-2018 Powermad Software