Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Avengers >> View Post
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Post By
The Black Guardian
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,299
Subj: Re: Carol Danvers
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 at 04:11:27 pm EDT (Viewed 67 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Carol Danvers
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 at 04:09:26 am EDT (Viewed 119 times)

Previous Post


    Quote:
    This is an old question: Who is Marvel's Wonder Woman? There is no really convincing candidate.


No, there is none but how could there be one?
https://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?rpy=avengers-2019022612331648

Thor, Valkyrie, Hercules & Sif already fit the role of a main character with a mythological background.

Thanks to the movies, Captain Marvel & Black Widow have become nearly as famous as Wonder Woman.

If somebody needs an alpha female character, there is Storm.
https://www.comicboards.com/php/show.php?rpy=comicbattles-2019111817435316

If somebody needs a super strong female character, She-Hulk is already around.

If somebody needs a character of royal lineage coming from an exotic country, there are Medusa, Crystal & Shuri.

If somebody needs a warrior woman, there are Thundra, Power Princess, Angela & Lyra.
https://www.cbr.com/the-15-fiercest-warrior-women-in-comics/

If somebody needs an exceptional melee fighter, there are Gamora & Elektra.

If somebody needs a character with all of these features combined, there is Thena.
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/eternals-angelina-jolie-thena-training

Even so, if somebody really needs an immortal Amazon, there is still Hippolyta.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/hippolyt.htm

The three main teams of superheroes all have female founding members: Sue Storm Richards, Janet van Dyne & Jean Grey.

The room is already crowded.


    Quote:
    But I guess it just CAN'T be a legacy character.


In my opinion, it doesn't matter at all. Actually, no matter what the publisher tries to do, no matter what the marketing strategy is, only time will tell.

DC Comics have had two iconic female characters, Wonder Woman & Catwoman, since the Golden Age, contrary to Timely/Atlas/Marvel Comics. Catwoman is an iconic character thanks to Batman.

Timely/Atlas Comics published stories about female characters (Miss America, Blonde Phantom, Golden Girl, Sun Girl, Venus, Namora, Silver Scorpion, Black Widow, Miss Patriot) but when sales dropped, they stopped. On the contrary, DC Comics continued to publish some Wonder Woman stories.

The reason is more cynical than people think: apparently, DC had a deal with the family of William Moulton Marston. If ever they stopped publishing Wonder Woman, they would lose the exclusivity of the character...

So, anyway, in the 1960s, DC still had its two iconic female characters. At the same time, Marvel decided to invest in new female characters, starting with Sue Storm of the Fantastic Four. Back then, there was no Marvel equivalent to William Moulton Marston. Marston had always wanted Wonder Woman to be a "propaganda for female empowerment". Stan Lee couldn't care less about that. So, these new female characters were conceived as love interests, sidekicks, team members, supporting characters or antagonists but not as central protagonists.

From 1966 to 1968, Catwoman appeared on the Batman tv show, assuring her celebrity among comics fans.

We have to wait for 1970 to see Marvel really starting to care about their female superheroes.
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/amazing_spiderman_86_1.shtml
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/amazing_adventures_1_black_wid.shtml
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/amazing_adventures_2-4_black_w.shtml
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/amazing_adventures_5-8_black_w.shtml

In 1975, Wonder Woman had her own tv show, reinforcing her status as the most iconic female character.

So, Marvel fell behind. The main reason is that comic books with female characters are not top sellers. I think that DC understood before Marvel that female characters could be interesting in term of multimedia approach and not just comic book sales (probably because of Warner Bros.).

Since the 1970s, Marvel Comics have corrected their strategy.

Nowadays, I think that Marvel's Catwoman is Black Widow both in term of popularity and role in the comics & movies.
(NB: there is also Black Cat but she is clearly a rip-off.)

No single character is Marvel's Wonder Woman but there are interesting female characters such as Kitty Pryde, for example.

In the case of Carol Danvers, in my opinion, Chris Claremont, Brian Reed & Kelly Sue DeConnick are the best writers. I am not familiar with the works of Kelly Thompson but if you say that she is very talented, then I trust you. David López is the best penciller.


    Quote:
    I think that Carol Danvers is one of the most inconsistent characters in the MU.


In term of inconsistency, I think that Tony Stark, Venom and Hank Pym are on par with her.

... and what about the X-Men, Harry Osborn, Ghost Rider, Moon Knight... to name a few?

It is a general problem: the writers adapt the characters to their wishes, not the other way around.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DependingOnTheWriter

In the case of Carol Danvers, in my opinion, one writer, Margaret Stohl is responsible for the most important inconsistency (2018): Marie Danvers being a Kree does not fit with what we knew of the family background of Carol Danvers.

This new information is useless since it doesn't match either with the MCU origin (2019).

So, it is a pointless retcon that needs further explaining.


Kelly Sue DeConnick really irritated me with the Enemy Within storyline. It unnecessarily gave Carol another victimization/quasi-rape story and once again ruined her memories. But agreed about the other three.




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