Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Avengers >> View Post
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Post By
Menshevik

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,876
In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,300
Subj: Re: Carol Danvers
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 at 06:06:37 am EDT (Viewed 80 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Carol Danvers
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 at 04:09:26 am EDT (Viewed 119 times)



    Quote:
    In my opinion, it doesn't matter at all. Actually, no matter what the publisher tries to do, no matter what the marketing strategy is, only time will tell.



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    DC Comics have had two iconic female characters, Wonder Woman & Catwoman, since the Golden Age, contrary to Timely/Atlas/Marvel Comics. Catwoman is an iconic character thanks to Batman.



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    Timely/Atlas Comics published stories about female characters (Miss America, Blonde Phantom, Golden Girl, Sun Girl, Venus, Namora, Silver Scorpion, Black Widow, Miss Patriot) but when sales dropped, they stopped. On the contrary, DC Comics continued to publish some Wonder Woman stories.


But already in the 1940s there was a big difference. Marvel/Timely did not have superheroines with as much of an impact and staying power as DC/National's Wonder Woman or Fawcett's Mary Marvel, both of whom simultaneously appeared in the lead of two series (Wonder Woman headlined Sensation Comics as well as her own title, and also was briefly spun off into a syndicated newspaper strip). Most of the Timely heroines you mention appeared only in one or two handfuls of issues. They were less iconic and memorable than even some of DC's second-tier heroines, who at least warranted a Silver Age revival as legacy characters, most notably Black Canary and Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman. And DC/National did introduce new female characters in the interim, such as Supergirl and Batwoman (who can be said to have prefigured the more successful Batgirls of the Silver and subsequent ages). Marvel on the other hand apparently saw not much of interest in its Golden Age heroines and did not revive any of them in the 1960s (the only thing the Silver Age Black Widow has in common with her Golden Age namesake is the codename).



    Quote:
    The reason is more cynical than people think: apparently, DC had a deal with the family of William Moulton Marston. If ever they stopped publishing Wonder Woman, they would lose the exclusivity of the character...


Wonder if they would have bothered about that as much if Wonder Woman hadn't been one of their most successful and prominent superheroes.


    Quote:
    So, anyway, in the 1960s, DC still had its two iconic female characters. At the same time, Marvel decided to invest in new female characters, starting with Sue Storm of the Fantastic Four. Back then, there was no Marvel equivalent to William Moulton Marston. Marston had always wanted Wonder Woman to be a "propaganda for female empowerment". Stan Lee couldn't care less about that. So, these new female characters were conceived as love interests, sidekicks, team members, supporting characters or antagonists but not as central protagonists.



    Quote:
    From 1966 to 1968, Catwoman appeared on the Batman tv show, assuring her celebrity among comics fans.






    Quote:
    In 1975, Wonder Woman had her own tv show, reinforcing her status as the most iconic female character.



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    So, Marvel fell behind. The main reason is that comic books with female characters are not top sellers. I think that DC understood before Marvel that female characters could be interesting in term of multimedia approach and not just comic book sales (probably because of Warner Bros.).


I wouldn't say Marvel fell behind, it had lagged behind from the start.


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    Since the 1970s, Marvel Comics have corrected their strategy.



    Quote:
    Nowadays, I think that Marvel's Catwoman is Black Widow both in term of popularity and role in the comics & movies.
    (NB: there is also Black Cat but she is clearly a rip-off.)


Actually, there is a bit of a controversy as to whether the Black Cat is a rip-off of Catwoman, but let's not get into that.


    Quote:
    No single character is Marvel's Wonder Woman but there are interesting female characters such as Kitty Pryde, for example.



    Quote:
    In the case of Carol Danvers, in my opinion, Chris Claremont, Brian Reed & Kelly Sue DeConnick are the best writers. I am not familiar with the works of Kelly Thompson but if you say that she is very talented, then I trust you. David López is the best penciller.


I wouldn't know. I refuse to read any comic written by Kelly Thompson after the abomination called Rogue & Gambit.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      I think that Carol Danvers is one of the most inconsistent characters in the MU.



    Quote:
    In term of inconsistency, I think that Tony Stark, Venom and Hank Pym are on par with her.



    Quote:
    ... and what about the X-Men, Harry Osborn, Ghost Rider, Moon Knight... to name a few?






    Quote:
    In the case of Carol Danvers, in my opinion, one writer, Margaret Stohl is responsible for the most important inconsistency (2018): Marie Danvers being a Kree does not fit with what we knew of the family background of Carol Danvers.



    Quote:
    This new information is useless since it doesn't match either with the MCU origin (2019).



    Quote:
    So, it is a pointless retcon that needs further explaining.





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