Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Post By
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,299
In Reply To

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,876
Subj: What do you think of Carol Danvers? :-)
Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 at 06:08:56 pm EDT (Viewed 64 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Bad luck
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 at 09:01:57 am EDT (Viewed 62 times)


    My impression is that laws in Europe are more strict than in America. I got that from the way Albert Uderzo came down like a tonne of bricks on all parodies of "Asterix", and usually quite successfully. AFAIK, DC apparently did not even try this to a noticeable extent, e.g. in the cases of the parodies of their superheroes in early issues of MAD.

The way I see it, it depends how the parody is done. If the pastiche is too close to the original, then it can be mistaken for an original work and thus there is a problem. If the objective is to lampoon, satirize, etc. and you cannot confound it with an original work, then there is no problem. Humor is covered by the freedom of expression.

In 'école franco-belge', the most sensitive right holders are Moulinsart. They trace any attempt to copy Tintin without the approval of the company. Recently, they had a problem with a scultor. The scultor said that it was some kind of homage but it didn't work.

    I would say that even the stress on Catwoman's femininity would not go unchallenged in court. One can argue that since her beginnings she is merely a distaff example of the already long-established Gentleman Thief genre (Arsène Lupin, Raffles etc.). After all, it would not have been possible to get out of a plagiarism suit re. Superman merely by making your Superman rip-off a woman.

    Not that Superman's and the Joker's claims to originality are unassailable. People have noted e.g. certain similarities between Clark Kent, the Man of Steel, and Clark Savage Jr., the Man of Bronze. And there were plenty of killer clowns before the Joker, notably two operatic ones , Rigoletto (based on a Victor Hugo novel) and Canio from "I Pagliacci" (based, according to Leoncavallo, on a case from real life).(1) The case for the Joker being original is not exactly strengthened when you recall that he was modeled on Conrad Veidt in the title role of "The Man Who Laughs" (based on another Hugo novel).

    (1) That opera became the inspiration for the Spirit villain Palyachi, the Killer Clown, who debuted in July 1940, not long after the Joker's first appearance.

Yep, I did the same research than you when I was watching 'American Horror Story - the Cult'. Just like you, I wanted to know more about the origin of the 'killer clown'.
I don't fully agree with you: the Joker isn't the first, that's true, but he was more influential than I would have imagined. I was the first to be surprised.

    But that would not have stopped one of the big two from crushing smaller publishers in court. Yet that did not happen e.g. in the case of the Paragon Press version of Phantom Lady (renamed Blue Bulleteer after DC threatened a lawsuit).


Granted. I was not aware of that case.

    Well, that happened after Wolfman left the book, so it may easily contradict his vision of the character.
    The way I read it (in Dave Cockrum's interview in The X-Men Companion I (Fantagraphics 1982)), Storm is an amalgam of this Black Cat and another Cockrum creation - originally pitched for the Legion of Superheroes - called Typhoon. In Dave Cockrum's original vision, this Black Cat's powers were very similar to Wolfsbane's (Rahne was of course created several years later), except feline, not canine.

The problem is that, when they decided to drop the bad luck angle, they emphasized the similarities with Catwoman.
Also, if Black Cat had been the nemesis of Spider-Woman, there would have been no flirt between the protagonist & the antagonist and, thus, no parallel would have been made with Batman.

At the same time, Scarlet Witch already had this bad luck power.

It is funny that, later, Chris Claremont created two female characters, one with the bad luck power (Roulette) and the other, a werecat (Catseye).

If that was not enough, in the 1990s, in the X-Force book, Domino had a bad luck power, she had been impersonated by Copycat and, in parallel, there were also two werecats, Feral & Thorn.


    Speaking of Storm, her co-creator Len Wein had a very different vision of Ororo (as more of an ageless goddess figure) and was quite vocal in his 1982 interview that he disliked the way Chris Claremont foisted Modesty Blaise's origin story on her...

That's interesting! I wonder what Len Wein had planned for the character.
Do you have information about that?

    After all, it would not have been possible to get out of a plagiarism suit re. Superman merely by making your Superman rip-off a woman.

By the way, what do you think of Carol Danvers? \:\-\)

(nb: I think that her case is very interesting. Actually, I like Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel even though the character is obviously strongly inspired by previous characters...)

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