Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Post By
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 20,299
In Reply To

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,876
Subj: Thank you very much :-)
Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 at 04:58:43 pm EDT (Viewed 57 times)
Reply Subj: Re. the non-Carol Danvers parts of your last post
Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 at 04:42:28 am EDT (Viewed 63 times)

    Well, yeah, but "influential" is a quite different animal from "original". Because of their influence on what came after, many fans are unaware that Captain America wasn't the first superpatriot dressed in the Stars and Stripes, and these days many people erroneously believe that Wonder Woman - the most influential Golden Age superheroine - also was the first superheroine. While in reality there were well over two dozen superheroines of various types who came before her, including two Amazon heroines - the pulp heroine The Golden Amazon (1939) and Amazona the Mighty Woman (1940, one comicbook story only). And some of Wonder Woman's creative predecessors are still around these days (e.g. Hawkgirl and the Phantom Lady). But of course the majority has been forgotten because they were created for now-defunct publishers or not revived in the Silver Age...

Here, we are dealing with the concept of game-changer.
In my opinion, Superman is the original superhero because he is the game-changer: he is the one character whose influence changed the game.
Every character before him may have been a superman or a proto-superhero but Superman remains the first.
Otherwise, you would arrive to the conclusion that the "first superheroes" are French (1910s-1920s: Le Nyctalope, Protéa, Fascinax, Judex, Sâr Dubnotal, Félifax). Actually, they are not. They are only precursors, like Mandrake & the Phantom.
That's what I was trying to explain.
Einstein is forever associated with E=mc2 even though it was Poincaré who had discovered the mathematical formula because it was Einstein who understood the importance of the formula and who developped the theory behind. He changed the game. Poincaré is only a precursor.

In some cases, it may be unfair. Maybe, they were clowns who happen to be also killers in fiction before the Joker existed but they are nearly forgotten. The Joker (and It) changed the game thanks to his popularity.

As you said, Catwoman is not the first criminal in a catsuit.
Actually, Irma Vep already had one in 'Les Vampires' (1910s).
There was also a batsuit in the same serial film.
But Catwoman has become the iconic incarnation of the archetype thanks notably to Julie Newmar & Michelle Pfeiffer.

By the way, you reminded me Miss Fury. I bought the TPB of the comic strip a few years ago (very good drawings but the stories are a bit boring. That's often the problem with comic strips).
Guess what? I suddenly remembered tonight that her catsuit was cursed with bad luck. The character is also named Black Fury in some stories. And, even if Timely Comics published some stories, the character was owned by Tarpé Mills. So even this angle had been used before.

And, contrary to Catwoman, I don't believe that Black Cat is a game-changer.


    Well, Claremont wrote Spider-Woman for a time, so maybe he would have added a lesbian subtext to their antagonism. ;\-\)

That's... not impossible. (^_^')

    Luck powers seem to have been a thing in the 1980s. Ann Nocenti then created Longshot, who has good-luck powers, and he eventually became an X-Man.

I was such a fan of Arthur Adams back in the 1990s. I didn't understand what was the point of this comic book but the art was so good.
I was a fan of Nocenti on Daredevil but Longshot? I had no idea what it was about. I even had the feeling that it was contradictory with what happened to Longshot in X-Men, or not, or perhaps, or I don't understand the story at all.
For example, Ricochet Rita being Spiral? I couldn't say if it was a retcon or if it had been planned from the beginning or even who had this idea to begin with?

    "I really didn't want to see an origin for Storm, quite frankly. I really wanted everybody not to know who she is, where she came from. I was always of the opinion that Storm should be ageless. You could never tell whether she was fifteen or two hundred or a thousand years old. [...] There was a piece of copy in the first story that Len wrote, "Her eyes are blue and older than time," and I liked that. I thought we should never elaborate beyond that. And now she's just a person. I kind of enjoyed the idea that - well, she's not a goddess... but she might be, you know. Well, it's too late to do any of that now."

Thank you very much. \:\-\) \:\-\) \:\-\)

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