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In Reply To
Blue Jay

Subj: Not as much as you seem to think, since you're assigning it to things that didn't use it.
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 03:04:50 pm EST (Viewed 1 times)
Reply Subj: Re: It is very important
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 01:37:03 pm EST (Viewed 1 times)

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> >
> > >
> > > Sure the Joker is Batman's opposite, but without the Joker's origin the connection is only aesthetic, it is not definitive.
> > >
> >
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> > I disagree. The dichotomy between Batman & Joker had been established for decades before The Killing Joke, effectively and well-defined.
> > -BMK!-
>
> In fact, I'll go as far to say that, as much as I have enjoyed the Killing Joke, it is by no means an effective or even necessary origin for a character such as the Joker.
> -BMK!-

Really? The origin humanizes the Joker and makes it so that the reader realizes that just about anyone, including Bruce under the right circumstances could have become an insane monster. Without that where is the connection? Where is the motivation for Joker's insane actions? Where is the reason for Joker's and Batman's roots being tied together?

It is more than necessary, it is paramount, the same way Batman: Year One was.

It is more than effective considering it is one of the greatest Batman stories of all time, it was referenced in The Batman animated series, Christopher Nolan used it as source material for his new film, it has stood the test of time and it has been one of the big bestsellers of DC.

This is not Batman: Confidential written by Michael Green or All-Star Batman and Robin by Frank Miller, this is Batman: The Killing Joke by Alan Moore that is considered the greatest comic book writter that ever lived by most of the world.

Without Batman: The Killing Joke, we got Tim Burton's cliched ganster by a stereotypical Jack Nicholson performance of a madman and Bruce Timm's crazy mobster assasin that for no reason became a jester.

Batman: The Killing Joke is the climax of the Joker's story that brings every great Joker story in focus and concludes the Joker's story. From his first appearance, to the remake The Man Who Laughs, to the Joker's Five Way Revenge, to the Laughing Fish, The Killing Joke ties up all the threads perfectly into the ultimate ending.

After Batman: The Killing Joke there are no more great Joker stories, those stories are about an impostor, not about the real Joker.





> > In fact, I'll go as far to say that, as much as I have enjoyed the Killing Joke, it is by no means an effective or even necessary origin for a character such as the Joker.
> > -BMK!-
>
> Really? The origin humanizes the Joker and makes it so that the reader realizes that just about anyone, including Bruce under the right circumstances could have become an insane monster.

True, which is interesting, but not an aboslute "must have"

>Without that where is the connection?

There doesn't need to be one.

>Where is the motivation for Joker's insane actions?

You've sort of answered your own question there, he's insane.

>Where is the reason for Joker's and Batman's roots being tied together?

They weren't. The Joker's origin as the Red Hood only appeared in the 1951, prior to that, for over a decade he'd been just a crook, and insane killer.

> It is more than necessary, it is paramount, the same way Batman: Year One was.

Why?

> It is more than effective considering it is one of the greatest Batman stories of all time, it was referenced in The Batman animated series,

What? When? The BTAS origin of the Joker removes the Red Hood concept completely, and has the Joker's past life being "a nameless gunsel for the Vellestra Mob". He was a sadistic killer BEFORE he was the Joker, as seen in "Mask of the Phantasm". The only thing they have in common is a large vat of acidic chemicals being involved.

>Christopher Nolan used it as source material for his new film, it has stood the test of time and it has been one of the big bestsellers of DC.

Except he appears to be changing it again

> Without Batman: The Killing Joke, we got Tim Burton's cliched ganster by a stereotypical Jack Nicholson performance of a madman and Bruce Timm's crazy mobster assasin that for no reason became a jester.

He had as much reason as the original Joker ever had.



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