Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Batman >> View Post
·
Post By
Tenzel Kim

In Reply To
Blue Jay

Subj: Not bias against TKJ just your interpretation of it
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 at 04:45:30 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: Lots of bias against TKJ
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 at 03:44:50 pm EST

Previous Post

It seems this message board is filled with people that are biased against TKJ going as far as believing that the origin in it is highly questionable and not at all definitive.

What many fail to understand is that the Joker is unsure of his own origin, however TKJ is written by Alan Moore to give the audience his definitive origin of the Joker. Never has it been said anywhere that the origin of the Joker in TKJ is not definitive, in fact such an origin has been reinforced several times, only the Joker's awareness of such an origin is questionable, but everybody that has read TKJ is supposed to be aware that the origin there is true.

I only found out about Batman: The Killing Joke because everywhere I went online people lauded it as the definitive origin that cannot be questioned. By the way it is not my take on the origin, it is Alan Moore's take on the Joker origin. If anybody has a better one I would sure like to see you write it for DC, because the only origin we have is TKJ's origin.

So I am going to list different places that have fans of Batman: The Killing Joke.

http://www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=1282

http://www.rambles.net/killing_joke.html

http://comics.ign.com/articles/618/618658p1.html

http://rajivram2.blogspot.com/2006/02/book-review-killing-joke.html

http://www.comictreadmill.com/CTMBlogarchives/2004/2004_Individual/2004_07/000473.php

Tim Burton claimed that The Killing Joke was a major influence on his film adaptation of Batman:

"I was never a giant comic book fan, but I've always loved the image of Batman and The Joker. The reason I've never been a comic book fan - and I think it started when I was a child - is because I could never tell which box I was supposed to read. I don't know if it was dyslexia or whatever, but that's why I loved The Killing Joke, because for the first time I could tell which one to read. It's my favorite. It's the first comic I've ever loved. And the success of those graphic novels made our ideas more acceptable."

Here are other quotes.

"It must be noted though, that it is in no way said that the background supplied is anything but the story told out of an observer's point of view."

"A story of the second Batman/Joker encounter later presented in issue #50 of Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (Sept. 1993) corroborates the events of The Killing Joke as being true: when Batman faces the Joker for the first time, he recognises him as the Red Hood, whom he thought had drowned in the chemicals."

"Much of the Joker's story from The Killing Joke is also confirmed as being correct in 2004's "Pushback" (Batman: Gotham Knights #50-55; reprinted with #66 as Batman: Hush Returns, where the events are observed and reported by a third party — Edward Nigma, a.k.a. The Riddler — having no reason to lie. Nigma recounts that the Joker's wife was kidnapped and murdered by the criminals in order to force the engineer's compliance."

"Director Christopher Nolan has mentioned that The Killing Joke will serve as an influence for the version of the Joker that will appear in The Dark Knight film. Heath Ledger, who will appear in the film as the Joker, stated in an interview that he was given a copy of The Killing Joke as reference for the role."

If you do not like the Joker's origin in TKJ that is fine, but do not merely throw that origin to the wind for no reason, instead come up with your own origin that is better and then bring it out, otherwise if you cannot put out then just live with origin you have.

> It seems this message board is filled with people that are biased against TKJ going as far as believing that the origin in it is highly questionable and not at all definitive.

I absolutely love the Killing Joke but as many other around here I don't agree with your belief that we are neccesarily learning the real origin of the Joker. That is the big difference. It is not so much a matter of bias against TKJ as it is against your interpretation of it.

> What many fail to understand is that the Joker is unsure of his own origin, however TKJ is written by Alan Moore to give the audience his definitive origin of the Joker.

Where have you ever heard Moore state this. The book itself plainly states that sometimes he remembers it one way and sometimes another. That's part of the beauty of the story. This way Moore actually allows for ALL different origins by any creator to be true. There is no difinite version, it can change as often as creators want to change it without that ruining the versions that came before or after. It's the perfect retcon.

> Never has it been said anywhere that the origin of the Joker in TKJ is not definitive, in fact such an origin has been reinforced several times, only the Joker's awareness of such an origin is questionable, but everybody that has read TKJ is supposed to be aware that the origin there is true.

It has never been stated that the origin in TKJ IS definitive. We have had Joker origin stories that have used the origin from TKJ and we've had stories that didn't. While being a great companion piece to TKJ, The Man Who Laughs by Brubaker didn't really acknowledge TKJ origin, except for the fact that the Joker was the Red Hood before becoming the Joker and that was not a TKJ invention.

> I only found out about Batman: The Killing Joke because everywhere I went online people lauded it as the definitive origin that cannot be questioned. By the way it is not my take on the origin, it is Alan Moore's take on the Joker origin. If anybody has a better one I would sure like to see you write it for DC, because the only origin we have is TKJ's origin.

No there have been more than the Moore version, such as the recent Batman Confidential one (which wasn't all that good though). What is so great about the origin in TJK is the fact that the definitive origin of the Joker is that there is no definitive origin.

> So I am going to list different places that have fans of Batman: The Killing Joke.

And I'm sure you'll find a lot of fans around here as well, just not fans of the same interpretation that you have of it.

Yes it is true that the story in Legends of the Dark Knight and Gotham Knights claim that the origin we saw in TKJ is true but personally I am of the opinion that the writers of those stories completely missed the point and rather than reinforcing TKJ they weakened it and they are definitely not on the top of my favorite Joker stories.

> If you do not like the Joker's origin in TKJ that is fine, but do not merely throw that origin to the wind for no reason, instead come up with your own origin that is better and then bring it out, otherwise if you cannot put out then just live with origin you have.

I don't thrown it to the wind for no reason. I throw it to the wind because in my opinion the fact that this was just one possibility and for a character like the Joker having a definitive origin that is not definitive is the absolute best origin. I happen to like the origin we saw in TKJ but at the same time I love the fact that it isn't neccesarily the right one. This leaves every writer in the future free to explore their own version without any of them having to negate the others.

Tenz.


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