Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Batman >> View Post
·
Post By
BMK!

In Reply To
Blue Jay

Subj: Re: Lots of bias against TKJ
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 at 04:54:25 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: Lots of bias against TKJ
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 at 03:44:50 pm EST

Previous Post

It seems this message board is filled with people that are biased against TKJ going as far as believing that the origin in it is highly questionable and not at all definitive.

What many fail to understand is that the Joker is unsure of his own origin, however TKJ is written by Alan Moore to give the audience his definitive origin of the Joker. Never has it been said anywhere that the origin of the Joker in TKJ is not definitive, in fact such an origin has been reinforced several times, only the Joker's awareness of such an origin is questionable, but everybody that has read TKJ is supposed to be aware that the origin there is true.

I only found out about Batman: The Killing Joke because everywhere I went online people lauded it as the definitive origin that cannot be questioned. By the way it is not my take on the origin, it is Alan Moore's take on the Joker origin. If anybody has a better one I would sure like to see you write it for DC, because the only origin we have is TKJ's origin.

So I am going to list different places that have fans of Batman: The Killing Joke.

http://www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=1282

http://www.rambles.net/killing_joke.html

http://comics.ign.com/articles/618/618658p1.html

http://rajivram2.blogspot.com/2006/02/book-review-killing-joke.html

http://www.comictreadmill.com/CTMBlogarchives/2004/2004_Individual/2004_07/000473.php

Tim Burton claimed that The Killing Joke was a major influence on his film adaptation of Batman:

"I was never a giant comic book fan, but I've always loved the image of Batman and The Joker. The reason I've never been a comic book fan - and I think it started when I was a child - is because I could never tell which box I was supposed to read. I don't know if it was dyslexia or whatever, but that's why I loved The Killing Joke, because for the first time I could tell which one to read. It's my favorite. It's the first comic I've ever loved. And the success of those graphic novels made our ideas more acceptable."

Here are other quotes.

"It must be noted though, that it is in no way said that the background supplied is anything but the story told out of an observer's point of view."

"A story of the second Batman/Joker encounter later presented in issue #50 of Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (Sept. 1993) corroborates the events of The Killing Joke as being true: when Batman faces the Joker for the first time, he recognises him as the Red Hood, whom he thought had drowned in the chemicals."

"Much of the Joker's story from The Killing Joke is also confirmed as being correct in 2004's "Pushback" (Batman: Gotham Knights #50-55; reprinted with #66 as Batman: Hush Returns, where the events are observed and reported by a third party — Edward Nigma, a.k.a. The Riddler — having no reason to lie. Nigma recounts that the Joker's wife was kidnapped and murdered by the criminals in order to force the engineer's compliance."

"Director Christopher Nolan has mentioned that The Killing Joke will serve as an influence for the version of the Joker that will appear in The Dark Knight film. Heath Ledger, who will appear in the film as the Joker, stated in an interview that he was given a copy of The Killing Joke as reference for the role."

If you do not like the Joker's origin in TKJ that is fine, but do not merely throw that origin to the wind for no reason, instead come up with your own origin that is better and then bring it out, otherwise if you cannot put out then just live with origin you have.


>
> What many fail to understand is that the Joker is unsure of his own origin, however TKJ is written by Alan Moore to give the audience his definitive origin of the Joker. Never has it been said anywhere that the origin of the Joker in TKJ is not definitive, in fact such an origin has been reinforced several times, only the Joker's awareness of such an origin is questionable, but everybody that has read TKJ is supposed to be aware that the origin there is true.
>

Never has it been said that Moore was trying to give the audience a definitive origin, either. Brian Bolland wanted to do a story involving Batman and Joker and requested that Moore would write it. TKJ is what he thought, at the time, would be an interesting story, but by no means something definitive.

>
> Here are other quotes.
>
> "It must be noted though, that it is in no way said that the background supplied is anything but the story told out of an observer's point of view."
>
> "A story of the second Batman/Joker encounter later presented in issue #50 of Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (Sept. 1993) corroborates the events of The Killing Joke as being true: when Batman faces the Joker for the first time, he recognises him as the Red Hood, whom he thought had drowned in the chemicals."
>
> "Much of the Joker's story from The Killing Joke is also confirmed as being correct in 2004's "Pushback" (Batman: Gotham Knights #50-55; reprinted with #66 as Batman: Hush Returns, where the events are observed and reported by a third party — Edward Nigma, a.k.a. The Riddler — having no reason to lie. Nigma recounts that the Joker's wife was kidnapped and murdered by the criminals in order to force the engineer's compliance."
>
> "Director Christopher Nolan has mentioned that The Killing Joke will serve as an influence for the version of the Joker that will appear in The Dark Knight film. Heath Ledger, who will appear in the film as the Joker, stated in an interview that he was given a copy of The Killing Joke as reference for the role."
>

Here's some you forgot to add...

"Despite its popularity, Alan Moore himself would later find much fault with his story, calling it "clumsy, misjudged and [devoid of] real human importance."


"You then went and did Batman: the Killing Joke.

Moore: Yeah, it was done while I was doing Watchmen, or just after or something, I'm not sure which but it was too close to Watchmen. I mean, Brian [Bolland] did a wonderful job on the art but I don't think it's a very good book. It's not saying anything very interesting."



> If you do not like the Joker's origin in TKJ that is fine, but do not merely throw that origin to the wind for no reason, instead come up with your own origin that is better and then bring it out, otherwise if you cannot put out then just live with origin you have.

Or, you could accept the fact that these are decades-old iconic pop culture characters that are subject to inevitable changing interpretations, including the details of their origins.


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