Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Black Panther >> View Post
·
Post By
Primetime.

In Reply To
Thatguy

Subj: Re: No idea honestly
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 06:08:48 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Re: No idea honestly
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:15:19 am EDT

Previous Post

> One problem I see is that you criticize portraying Wakanda as having developed technilogical advancement naturally. You seem to want it to be the stereotypically backward black African nation that gains advancement only from the combination of an individual anomaly and Western technology. Can you not see how this would be looked at negatively by black readers?

You have a bad habit of placing words in my mouth, Primetime. Please do not make a habit of it, eh?

I never stated, nor do I want, Wakanda to be some stereotypical, backwards nation. As a matter of fact, I defended Priest's choice to present Wakanda as modern as opposed to the stereotypical on Stan and Kirby gave us in this very thread ( http://www.comicboards.com/blackpanther/view.php?rpl=070314191639).

I fail to see how Panther making Wakanda an advanced nation would be viewed negatively by anyone. For one thing, it's Wakanda's technology at it's core.

Most importantly, it's an impressive feat of genius for T'Challa few can match. He uplifted his entire country, making it a world power by the merits of his own genius. Every piece of advanced technology os owed to T'Challa's genius, at least in part.

It's in no way realistic, but it's an amazing accomplishment. And one especially important considering the sheer number of geniuses out there. Pym has his particles, Stark has his armor, Richards basically everything, and T'Challa had Wakanda. Now, he's got nothin'.
>
> I think that it is quite clear that Panther is now being portrayed as an anomaly who takes an already highly advanced nation to another level in a way that others would not have been able to. This is contrary to the way that you act as if Hudlin's T'Challa TOTALLY inherits all of his knowledge and tech.

If only that were the case. How exactly has Hudlin put Wakanda above regular super science?
>
> You seem to contradict yourself by calling Hudlin's Panther flawless, yet show how he is flawed when his nation is easily invaded. Doesn't he have to be saved in the crossover with with X-Men? I don't think that the problem is that T'Challa is without flaw. The problem is that he has not had an interesting challenge.

No, I believe I've stated that Hudlin is trying to make Panther flawless, but simply lacks the skill. If Hudlin were functionally a better writer, I honestly believe he'd make T'Challa a 'Mary Sue'.

You are right on one score, though. T'Challa really hasn't faced an interesting challenge in a while. Who do you think is to blame for that?
>
> > > We had a heated debate a while ago. But why wouldn't you think your views or things that I have read by you would be deemed just a little racially insensitive?
> >
> > ...given that the crux of my complaints against Hudlin have been that he's writing Panther poorly, and his writing doesn't do the character justice.
> >
> > Might it be that I don't accept Hudlin's word as the end all, be all on racial matters?
> > >
> > > > > > McDuffie's a fine writer, but he's also a respectful writer. Normally that's not a problem, but with Hudlin's writing, it is. I've little doubt McDuffie will follow Hudlin's characterization, and I'm not fond of that.
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL. This thread is being discussed. Apparently Dwayne sees Reggie's Black Panther as "intelligent", "a master strategist" and a "powerful king", so I figure Dwayne will write him as such. What other characterization do you need?
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.thevhive.com/forum/index.php?webtag=DWAYNEMCDUFFIE&msg=21.1711
> > > >
> > > > Hudlin supporters have implied racism on the part of myself and other detractors of Hudlin on yet another board. This must be some sort of pathetic record by now.
> > > >
> > > >

> > One problem I see is that you criticize portraying Wakanda as having developed technilogical advancement naturally. You seem to want it to be the stereotypically backward black African nation that gains advancement only from the combination of an individual anomaly and Western technology. Can you not see how this would be looked at negatively by black readers?
>
> You have a bad habit of placing words in my mouth, Primetime. Please do not make a habit of it, eh?
>
> I never stated, nor do I want, Wakanda to be some stereotypical, backwards nation. As a matter of fact, I defended Priest's choice to present Wakanda as modern as opposed to the stereotypical on Stan and Kirby gave us in this very thread ( http://www.comicboards.com/blackpanther/view.php?rpl=070314191639).

Ok, my apologies. You apparently would prefer Wakanda to have been no more than modern (as practically all Africans nations in modern times are actually modern) before T'Challa. Am I correct?

> I fail to see how Panther making Wakanda an advanced nation would be viewed negatively by anyone. For one thing, it's Wakanda's technology at it's core.

No, it's T'Challa's technology, via Western education, that he gives to Wakanda.

> Most importantly, it's an impressive feat of genius for T'Challa few can match. He uplifted his entire country, making it a world power by the merits of his own genius. Every piece of advanced technology os owed to T'Challa's genius, at least in part.

Pushing a planet is an impressive strength feat, but not necessary for a character to be highly impressive. Plus, pushing a planet is usually deemed so unrealistic, even by comicbook standards, as to be considered silly by most.

The point is that not liking the idea of fictional black Africans developing high tech AS A GROUP, but being given such tech by an individual anomaly/freak of nature can easily be seen as implying that such a portrayal is just too outrageous.

> It's in no way realistic, but it's an amazing accomplishment. And one especially important considering the sheer number of geniuses out there. Pym has his particles, Stark has his armor, Richards basically everything, and T'Challa had Wakanda. Now, he's got nothin'.

What does Batman have? I mean, I don't think anyone has ever viewed Wakanda as T'Challa's niche. I actually see T'Challa like you describe Richards. He basically has everything.

> If only that were the case. How exactly has Hudlin put Wakanda above regular super science?

I didn't say that he did. T'Challa further enhances Wakanda to a higher level of super science that it was at before. But not above super science as a whole.

> No, I believe I've stated that Hudlin is trying to make Panther flawless, but simply lacks the skill. If Hudlin were functionally a better writer, I honestly believe he'd make T'Challa a 'Mary Sue'.

And you speak of putting words in people's mouths. Loeb just had Sabretooth break chains T'Challa had on him. Shouldn't T'Challa have technically advance chains that Creed wouldn't break? But I doubt that Loeb will be attacked as Hudlin is.

> You are right on one score, though. T'Challa really hasn't faced an interesting challenge in a while. Who do you think is to blame for that?

Crossovers.


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