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Post By
The Mandarin

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,092
In Reply To
Reverend Meteor

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,775
Subj: Re: No, I don't think that's the case...
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 at 06:54:45 pm EDT (Viewed 109 times)
Reply Subj: Re: No, I don't think that's the case...
Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 at 04:42:57 pm EDT (Viewed 117 times)

Previous Post



    Quote:
    I think this is the best way to fix Steve.


Which Steve? The "real" one with the messed up memories who sold the country out to a Nazi-esque group like HYDRA or a cosmic cube created Steve who is just a feel good bunch of nonsense cobbled together.

If the "real one" i.e. the currently evil one then why bother with this particular story? That Steve is currently evil. There is no reason for people to trust that guy so the Icers propaganda plot is moot.

If the fake cosmic cube original recipe Steve then again why bother. He's not real. He's not even the guy who was frozen to begin with and the Icers propaganda plot is moot.

The Icers plot only works if Steve is back to being both 1) not a cosmic cube construct and 2) a good person.



    Quote:
    He's never had to battle contrary facts like this before.


And it would be a great time to do this storyline if he was back to normal. But he's not. Right now he IS a contrary fact. One version of him is a mockery of every value he ever held. Another is a fake version dreamed up by a child like god.



    Quote:
    The American Government waxes and wanes as to whether or not to trust Captain America, but the American people have always trusted him, to some degree.



The problem with that plot is that Steve doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to his own defense. Either he's a fake thing or a psycho terrorist. He really shouldn't be trusted. The cold hearted fickle American public would be right for like the first time ever.



    Quote:
    To have them question their trust in him, that's an interesting landscape to put Steve in. The "Icers" debate is just a way to circumvent talking about Evil Nazi Steve. But the American Public debate is interesting, "Why should we trust Steve Rogers/Captain America?"


That would be interesting if the REAL Steve was going through that. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand we're not getting the REAL Steve. The good version is just created by Kobik and the real one still has all the evil messed up memories.


    Quote:
    I have faith that Waid can pull it off. In fact, I think he's one of the only guys to be able to pull it off in a way that's clever an funny. Either him or Kurt Busiek.


If Waid can make Steve Steve again then maybe it can work. The junk they've given Waid to work with doesn't inspire me. We need a big fat reset button then I will see the merit of the Icers propaganda story. But right now Steve isn't Steve and they're doing a story that calls Steve into question. He should be in question. He isn't himself.




Which makes me wonder: was the original idea to have him come to his senses at some point, but they changed their mind when they saw how hated he had become? This story would feel like the logical next step after evil Rogers becoming converted to a good guy. It would make sense as a redemption arc. But at some point they realized that they had made him too evil to be redeemed. So they came up with fake-Rogers, but only after the redemption arc was already plotted. So now we have a redemption arc for a character who doesn't need redemption.

Really, I've noticed a lot lately how often stories seem to be kludges trying to resolve messes created by aborted previous stories.




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