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D. Strange

Member Since: Tue Sep 19, 2017
Posts: 272
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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 38,444
Subj: Really? Please help me understand
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 at 02:23:10 am EST (Viewed 464 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Captain America #697: Hunter, hunted, and hibernation...
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 at 03:22:45 pm EST (Viewed 491 times)

Previous Post

Lord I wish I had the time to fully talk about why and how I loved this issue. \(euh\)
But let me make a quick comment and say I haven't read such an enjoyable, and old fashioned, Captain America tale in many years. I tried this issue out as it reminded me of my first Captain America experience where Cap faced Doctor Octopus way back in the DeMatteis/Zeck days, and like that tale this was thoroughly enjoyable! Not as eventful as that Doctor Octopus tale perhaps but Mark Waid's grasp of what makes the character is as intuitive as his understanding on the likes of Superman. The plot is a well worn one surely, but with the capable help of Chris Salmee a basic story of survival and the courage to stay in control and disciplined proves why this particular plot always works so well when it is rolled out in a book.

A simple but impressive opener. \(yes\)

I have found what is now Mark Waid's third run on the character to be painfully boring.

i have also found it to so far be a dividing point among readers. I would very much like to understand the other side's view.

You mentioned the Dematteis/Zeck run, which is one of my personal favorites. This gives me hope that I may finally figure it out.

I enjoyed Dematteis run for almost the exact reasons I haven't liked this one so far.

Those stories had a lot of character work. Being able to see into Cap's head gave a perception of why he was who he was, and sort of clarified the both regular folks quality as well as the true hero one.

Also, his relationship with Bernie Rosenthal, Arnie Roth, and Nomad, also gave the character a definition and a push.

The stories also had more of a depth an interesting aspects to them, all well still being a good adventure story.

These issues of Waid's run have been very A to B, paint-by-numbers sort. Cap comes in, has little conflict or tension, and then succeeds.

The Cap of Dematteis would struggle, he may have always won, but it was an ordeal to do so. There would also be a toll on Cap, The Death of Red Skull and Vermin stories come to mind.

I loathe Nick Spencer's run, as well as most modern Marvel comics, for many of thee same reasons most readers do. However, Dematteis did the same things, only better.


One issue is about Cap defending the rights of Neo-Nazis to free speech as a fight breaks out with a Jewish group. I should point out Dematteis (like me) is Jewish on his mother's side.

There was also a character that was likely afflicted with PTSD, even if not mentioned. This leads to Cap defending pacifism in an argument with Nomad.

Indian rights, with the Black Crow story.

In fact, that was a recurring theme, Cap standing in opposition to Nomad's often more aggressive views.

Also gay rights, with the introduction of Arnie Roth, who was forced to criticism his own sexuality (even if never named) as a form of torture at the hands of the Skull.

Which brings me to...

Diversity characters?

Cap has brought in Diversity characters since 1969 with the introduction of Falcon, who was an interesting character who went beyond just being "the black guy," to having complex views on his people's social events.

He was also Cap's best friend.

The 80s saw the introduction of Arnie Roth, who was gay. It was never said, but he was gay. It was obvious, Dematteis said it, and Shooter put some restrictions on the stories for that reason.

He was also put in and made that character more than a stereotype, and defined beyond that.

Personally, I think the difference is clear, good writing and character work opposed to shallow.

But I still can't get why the current run is praised by some, but that is fine, you can like whatever you want (but please explain), but to compare the two is peculiar.

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