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Post By
Beowulf

In Reply To
J

Subj: Re: not quite.
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 05:38:51 am EST
Reply Subj: Re: not quite.
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 05:29:30 pm EST

Previous Post

See this is the problem: youre focusing on your opinion but dismissing and ignoring all of Wonder Woman continuity.

We are *told* that Diana *can* control her strength completely. You can say its unbelieveable but at the end of the day it doesnt matter bc its a fictional story - the comic book details that she does withhold her strength. If she didnt or couldnt she could never spar with Black Canary or Batman - they would stand NO chance - they would be injured beyond repair, really. Same when Diana spars with the Amazons.

Yet there are countless examples of Diana sparring with people far less powerful (even beings such as Troia and Cassie who are super powered and STILL less powerful).

And Diana has sparred with Superman and Barda as well.

And your Northstar analogy, while a good attempt, is unfair because your discussing 2 different characters. One is a selfish self centered non-hero and the other is the living emobodiment of truth who only wants to help people.
>
> That is the problem. Again, we are comparing beings with class one superstrength with another possessing class 100 superstrength( in Diana's case rather more like class 1.000.000), not to mention speed.
> A contest cannot be fair, since the deck is stacked already.
>
> > Diana, as a child, was tested: a surprise attack left many of her Amazon sisters in critical condition causing Diana great fear in using her abilties - and proving just what she was capable of doing. After this Phillipus (among others) trained Diana in the use of her abilities AND taught her how to control the level of power she uses (as seen during sparring sessions with Batman, Black Canary and Lady Shiva to name a few...).
> >
>
> Which exactly proves my point. She was taught to hold back. She cannot go full power against beings, which don't possess her enhancements. She has to hold back, out of fear of hurting somebody.
> In order to really hone her skills to the most, she would have to battle her peers. She would have to fight regulary against Superman, CM, Martian Manhunter, Big Barda etc... to really maximise her skills. A normal amazon couldn't really guage her skill-level, since she operates on a completely different level.
>
> > The Contest, as written be WML had Diana powerless during the competition with 1/2 of her skill being transferred to Artemis (causing Diana to lose). The original Contest had Diana using her ability to control her speed & strength to match her Amazon sisters (and why would she lie? Shes the living embodiment of The Truth)...
> >
>
> That is just as belivable as Northstar not using his superspeed to win skiing matchs. In the end, he had to admit, that he didn't know for sure, if he had used his speed or not.
> In Diana's case, it is even more drastic.
> You cannot tell me, that she can somehow deactivate her far greater strength and choose not to use it.
>
> > Hippolyta showed how trained in marital arts the Amazons are - she defeated Heracles in h2h combat even though he is Class 100 and she is only Class 10 - using far superior skill. Diana is better than her mother.
>
> Apples and oranges. She is more powerful than her mother and stronger than Heracles, which means we are back to the problem. Also she know the amazon fighting style. I never said, that she was completly skill-less.
> Only, that she is not as skilled as other non-powered fighters due to her greater powers preventing her from reaching that level.
>
>

> See this is the problem: youre focusing on your opinion but dismissing and ignoring all of Wonder Woman continuity.
>
> We are *told* that Diana *can* control her strength completely. You can say its unbelieveable but at the end of the day it doesnt matter bc its a fictional story - the comic book details that she does withhold her strength. If she didnt or couldnt she could never spar with Black Canary or Batman - they would stand NO chance - they would be injured beyond repair, really. Same when Diana spars with the Amazons.
>
> Yet there are countless examples of Diana sparring with people far less powerful (even beings such as Troia and Cassie who are super powered and STILL less powerful).
>
> And Diana has sparred with Superman and Barda as well.
>
> And your Northstar analogy, while a good attempt, is unfair because your discussing 2 different characters. One is a selfish self centered non-hero and the other is the living emobodiment of truth who only wants to help people.
> >

You still missunderstand me. Of course, she can hold back as to not crush Black Canary. The point of course is, can someone who is so much stronger and faster than most everyone, develop the same amount of skill than a non-powered being, who doesn't possess those enhancements?
If you are a million times stronger and faster than your training partner, it remains somewhat doubtful, that you can develop the same amount of skill, when you are already so much more powerful and on top of it have to hold back, out of fear not to hurt anyone.

To really develop it, you would need to train constantly with similar powered peers, for years to find your limits and overcome them. In Diana's case those limitations would next to impossible to gauge.

That is why i don't think that WW is as skilled as say Lady Shiva, Karate Kid or Black Cannary. You simple cannot compare them. Of course she doesn't have to be thanks to her speed and relexes, on top of her strength, those others wouldn't stand a chance against her(Except maybe for Karate Kid).


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