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Post By
sheridan

In Reply To
MB

Subj: Re: naw....luke was more powerful
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 01:53:47 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: naw....luke was more powerful
Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 11:54:32 pm EST

Previous Post

> i see it like this. luke was still a jedi wannabe by the time he showed up to fight vader in "return." vader was taunting him, etc, to get him to use his anger and (as a direct result), turn to the dark side. the problem was, that when luke used his anger, it was more than vader could handle. so for that brief period of time, luke was "stronger."
>
> it is worth noting, however, that vader wasn't trying to kill luke. rather, he was just trying to turn him. if vader opened up on luke, i doubt luke would have survived. but, again, for that short time, luke was stronger....though i don't think "on balance" luke comes anywhere close to vader in power level.
>
> sheridan

No way, Vader had to go down. Just like Dooku did, in order to get Luke to turn, he has to cross some line. If Vader had beaten Luke, it doesn't accomplish anything. If Vader holds luke off, it doesn't accomplish anything. The emperor and vader needed Luke to kill or seriously injure vader. That's why after luke did it, the emperor thought he had won.

When luke came back from the brink and said he was still good, that's when the emperor fried him.

You really think even a dark side luke is better than vader?

dark side luke still gets wrecked by dark side vader when everything's on the line. the prophecy seems clear that vader would be the strongest jedi of all.

the problem is that vader was clearly holding back b/c he didn't want to kill his son, just get him to turn. but vader's "holding back" mode is not as great as luke's "go for it all" mode.

it's pure speculation on my part, but here's how i see it.

the emperor wanted luke to kill vader b/c it was clear that vader was too strong for emperor to control indefinately. i think the emperor would have preferred luke to turn w/o killing vader, but figured he wouldn't be able to make that happen. he also figured that he wouldn't be able to get vader to kill luke straight up, and that vader would turn against him to protect luke (which he ultimately did). so he gave vader leeway to try to turn luke, so as to keep vader happy.

the last attempt to get luke to turn (final fight) didn't work when luke pulled back. so emperor fried luke b/c he figured vader would appreciate having his life spared. emperor easily outclassed luke, but, as we know, was betrayed by vader.

so: vader > emperor > luke. vader didn't want to kill luke, but for that brief moment, luke wanted to kill vader. so again, that moment (and that moment only), luke was stronger. it doesn't matter that vader was holding back. the result is all that matters. but like i said, vader would easily beat luke if both are fighting for it all.

sheridan

> > i see it like this. luke was still a jedi wannabe by the time he showed up to fight vader in "return." vader was taunting him, etc, to get him to use his anger and (as a direct result), turn to the dark side. the problem was, that when luke used his anger, it was more than vader could handle. so for that brief period of time, luke was "stronger."
> >
> > it is worth noting, however, that vader wasn't trying to kill luke. rather, he was just trying to turn him. if vader opened up on luke, i doubt luke would have survived. but, again, for that short time, luke was stronger....though i don't think "on balance" luke comes anywhere close to vader in power level.
> >
> > sheridan
>
> No way, Vader had to go down. Just like Dooku did, in order to get Luke to turn, he has to cross some line. If Vader had beaten Luke, it doesn't accomplish anything. If Vader holds luke off, it doesn't accomplish anything. The emperor and vader needed Luke to kill or seriously injure vader. That's why after luke did it, the emperor thought he had won.
>
> When luke came back from the brink and said he was still good, that's when the emperor fried him.
>
> You really think even a dark side luke is better than vader?