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Subj: gods in comics
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 10:25:28 am EST
Reply Subj: Re: DIS-Agreed...
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 09:20:10 am EST

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> I think Wonder Man should be top tier as well, but not as strong as Thor.

By all accounts no non-deity in either comicbook universe should be able to match a deity in strength. But again, this is a comicbook.

>Actually, the ORIGINAL handbook listed Thor at 95 and Wonder Man at 90.

Simon has drawbacks which neither Thor nor the Hulk possess. Even if Wonderman started out as strong as either one the Hulk alone would quickly surpass it as that is his mantra, getting stronger as he gets angrier and as the fight goes on.

>They've had several instances where they showed that Wonder Man is not in Thor's class. Yeah, he had a good showing against Thor in that West Coast Avengers annual, but we all know that Thor has been on Marvel's SPIT LIST for decades now.

Not really. If you listen to Stan Lee's reasons for introducing Thor you will see that future writers eventually realized that having Thor in a comicbook was ludicrous even for a comicbook. He's a god for crying out loud!! So other writers decided that although he is listed as a god, in their opinion that is just a myth and the facts are that he and the Asgardians are just superpowered aliens for which they can and will power down or power up.

>The Thor of the 60's and 70's would have NEVER been that week. And as far as that Handbook, there was absolutely NO reason to list Thor below Hercules.

Hercules was the demi-god of strength. Strength was his calling card. Thor is the god of thunder. There is no reason to assume that Thor would be stronger than the god whose sole mantra is strength. So yes, Hercules should be listed stronger than Thor. Nor would we expect Hercules to be more able to summon the thunder and the lightning greater than Thor?

>Personally, I like Wonder Man to be stronger than the Thing and Namor, but weaker than Thor and the Hulk. However, he should be the most physically invulnerable of all of them.

Why? Cause of his skin alone? There is no reason to think that the process that resulted in Simon's invulnerability is any greater than that which created either Thor's or the Hulk's. And Namor's strength underwater is one of his advantages. While there he should have the ability to match anyone.

> By all accounts no non-deity in either comicbook universe should be able to match a deity in strength. But again, this is a comicbook.

Key point - "deity" does not mean in Marvel what it means in reality!

In the Marvel universe "gods" are merely extra-dimensional aliens that have been worshipped in the past. There is no suggestion that the universe was created a la Norse or Greek mythology - the Marvel universe sticks reasonably (this is debatable) close to a simplified version of conventional scientific wisdom.

Therefore there is no reason whatsoever that Thor and say Superman, Wonderman, the Hulk, the Silver Surfer or any other powerful comic-book hero shouldn't be similar in strength because one a "god" and another a mere "alien" or mere "mortal" this makes no sense whatsoever. Consider what the Norse would have thought if superman or wonderman had shown up, I suspect they would quickly have been incorporated into the mythos as "gods". The word "god" is just that, a word with several logical consequences springing from it in the Marvel universe such as "immortality" and "worship" and some forms of superhuman power. Some "gods" in Marvel are fairly weak, others (Odin, Zeus) very powerful.

For me (and I think most readers of this board) at least it isn't self-evident that just because a comic book character is based on a mythological character they must be superior to a comic-book character who is not!

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