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Post By
Rehzon

In Reply To
Daveym

Subj: Re: Well...
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 01:12:25 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: Well...
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 12:23:55 pm EST (Viewed 1 times)

Previous Post

> > Well the relevance is that in the issue i'm thinking of Superman had been hit with a Tesseract effect and left helpless. I think he was with john stewart and there was nothing they could do to help him.
>
> No, this is not the case. In the issue, an speeding mass of "mirror matter" had "kicked up a frontal wave of micro-tesseracts" and both the wave and the matter were headed for Earth. So the League dispatched Superman to handle the wave "with his usual aplomb." And he did. He held the wave back long enough for its threat to pass, then he assisted Flash and Firestorm in stopping the mirror matter.
>
Someone's going to have to post the images as while i've read them it's been ages since i've revisited them... my memory is of a helpless superman floating in space!

> > Therefore when i consider Captain Marvels feat and what enabled his to 'snap' back i draw the conclusion that this is a fine example of how their invulnerability differs. >:-|
>
> You need to re-read the JLA issue.
> >
Yup.



> > > Personally, I only care about what the comic shows, not what may have been or was in the author's head when he wrote it. The product, not the process, matters to me, and the product simply doesn't show how Superman would have reacted to the tesseract bomb.
> > >
> > No it doesn't. But it does show Marvel turned inside out and snapping back thanks to the nature of his invulnerability.
>
> This has no relevance on any point I made as I didn't argue otherwise.
>
No? I thought you did....

> > I can use this circular logic and throw back the question: "Just because Superman survived the Maggedon/sundip/Sun-eater/Fill-in-the-blank does not mean that Captain Marvel/Wonder Woman/Martian Manhunter could not have also!"
>
> Correct, though that's not an example of circular logic as you have not affirmed any consequent.
>
Well, neither have you!

> > So are we arguing what the comic shows about a character, about their durability, or what we think our personal pet favorite is capable of? \:\-\*
>
> Depends on the evidence. If there is no evidence to make a case, then it's all about preferences, in my opinion. With evidence, it can be either or both, depending on how you treat the facts at hand.
> >
And that's why i post scans when i can. Hard to argue with what continuity shows you!


> > >
> > I direct you here to 'First Thunder' which spells out the differences in their power.
>
> Not relevant to anything I said. I'm not contesting the nature of their invulnerabilities. I am asking how you have concluded that Marvel is invulnerable to all magic.
>
I keep hearing "It's not relevant" in concerns to that story and so long as i do i'll keep bringing it up! It is entirely relevant to any Superman/Cpt Marvel discussion as it sets out the differences in how their similar powers function, it would be like having a discussion on the Hulk and saying his healing factor wasn't 'relevant' to the post at hand. Of course it's relevant!
I have concluded that Captain Marvel is resistant to magic in a way Superman is not - i spelled it out. What I do not contest is that if you set Marvel up against Dormammu, Odin or Neron he most likely gets his butt handed him, after a fight. >:-| It's a question of perspective and powerlevel.

> > If Captain Marvel is in any way inferior to Superman we have yet to see it.
>
> This is neither here nor there as I haven't said anything about it either way.
>
I get the feeling you're one of those people who don't like being put on the spot.

> > You cite a number of examples where Superman has resisted magical attacks but the point is he has had to Fight those attacks, Marval can usually wade thru them!
>
> Superman didn't have to "Fight" all of them. Some simply had no effect on him at all, as I wrote. I suggest you re-read my post on the matter.
>
Yes he DID have to fight (most of) them! Don't treat me like i never read Superman or am anti-Superman. I'm not!

> > As late as the Arion arc Superman is constantly fretting about magic and seen to struggle with it, it is not something he can ever afford to underestimate and for every time he's been able to fight it there are many others where he hasn't.
>
> Correct, but what does this have to do with whether the issue showed that Superman can take a tesseract bomb?
> >
It has to do with comparing Superman to Captain Marvel, how their power works. Do pay attention >:-|

> > > > Superman is vulnerable to certain Radiations and energy attacks, red Sun energy, Magic and more... Captain Marvel however, is not!
> > >
> > > When has it been said that no magic can hurt Captain Marvel? I don't recall any comic saying that he is not vulnerable to magic. Even Shazam has been shown as susceptible to mystic forces.
> > >
> > Then the onus is on you to dig up occasions where Marvel has been taken out by these magical forces.
>
> Really? Do I have to find occasions of Aunt May being shot through the head to argue that she's vulnerable to bullets, too? In my opinion, your position -- that Marvel is completely beyond the reach of any magic -- is absurd as, in my opinion, no one is completely invulnerable to anything. I'll see what I can dig up though, if you like. I do know that Shazam was enthralled by the power of Mxyzptlk in Emperor Joker, though, if that helps.
>
Well as i said up above - I would never ever expect Marvel to be immune to that level of sheer power! But look at Day of Vengeance and you see both Cap and Black Adam doing pretty well against the Spectre for example, certainly better than superman ever has... the same applies to Wonder Woman who has a similar resistance to magic that Marvel has, she has a major sorceress in Circe as her archenemy and she's never really been able to take out Diana head on. Recall Action Comics #600 when they're on Olympus and Superman is unable to comprehend the environment whereas Wonder Woman does just fine? That's the advantage of being seeped in magic.

> > In general he has an amazing degree of immunity -
>
> I did not say otherwise, so I fail to see why you have stated this? Are you mixing up our conversation with one you're having with someone else?
>
No not at all, I'm directing it at you.
You seem to be trying to obscure the topic of this thread and while threads do have a tendency to naturally wander i think what's been discussed here is very clear.

> > - he's even resisted the Spear of Destiny's pull where superman hasn't!
>
> The only time I recall Superman encountering the Spear was in a hallucination scene in Spectre -- he never actually encountered it, I do not believe. However, I'll assume that I have missed something or am forgetting something -- what does this have to do with whether the comic showed that Superman can or cannot take the tesseract bomb that hit Captain Marvel?
>
Reread that issue of the Spectre and Superman has indeed fallen under it's spell. Rather than face him head on the Spectre shows his a vision of the near future and what will happen if he proceeds from this point.
The reason I mentioned it is of course because it is another example of Captain Marvels resistance to all things supernatural - Superman fell for the Spear before the Spectre pulled him back whereas Marvel was able to resist quite easily.

Thus in summary so far - Captain Marvels power is based on Magic which allows him immunity to assaults superman would fall to. His power also grants him an aptitude to the mystical which of couse superman lacks, In a sense Cap is an amalgam of Superman/Thor with all the benefits such a union would give!













"LOL ...LMAO...*wink*... Guffaw... *sigh*..." (etc etc...)

...Oh, Did i say lol BTW? *rhe*


>
> Thus in summary so far - Captain Marvels power is based on Magic which allows him immunity to assaults superman would fall to. His power also grants him an aptitude to the mystical which of couse superman lacks, In a sense Cap is an amalgam of Superman/Thor with all the benefits such a union would give!
>
I think Supes would have broken that shield just as Marvel did.If there was some enchantment on the shield,that could cut anyone that attacked it,
then maybe Supes would get hurt.But it's Faust making the shield,not
Strange or Dr.Fate.


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