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Post By
Braugi

In Reply To
Braugi

Subj: a good litmus test...
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:39:12 am CDT
Reply Subj: Re: for me, it's kind of a sliding thing with the whole M/EM/PM categories....let me demonstrate....
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:31:08 am CDT


IMO generally, a mid tier street will hold his own against a mid tier meta, but should lose a majority. Same with the difference with every level.

If an EM has ONLY strength and durability, they can probably hold their own with a lot of heralds that choose to fight in that manner, provided its a relatively versatile herald...

Generally, barring specific matchups, most herald levellers should be win 4-6/10 against each other, and win 6-8 of 10 against PM's, but those fights could be quite competitive. Heralds should win 8 or more vs. EM's, and will usually clearly outclass the opponent unless they are a versatile herald going head to head to a one dimensional EM's strength.

> > At first glance, I view these three categories as follows:
> >
> > Meta (low)= 1 or 2 low level powers on display that no street NATURALLY has.
>
> What about someone with meta level equipment? How about Cyclops...he's meta, and its one power, but its not really low level. Beast is meta, but he has strength, low end durability, super agility, speed, and opposable thumbs on his feet.
>
> > EM (medium)= 3 or more low level or mid range powers on display.
> What about 1 versatile power, or just similar powers to a meta at a higher level...
>
> > PM (high)= Someone is manipulating either 1 or more powers at a pretty high level here, or they have more than 3 or 4 medium level powers and/or at least 1 power that's operating on a high level.
> >
> This is more than a 'pretty high' level...if its one power, its generally got the capacity for national to planetary scale...
>
> > So as you see, Meta is low end powers, EM is medium powers, PM is high end powers, but not quite Cosmic Level Heralds.
> >
> > Exceptions:
> >
> > People like Tony Stark who are clearly a street who has a powerful armor with lots of abilities that are demonstrated. Classic IM to me is roughly PM because those repulsors, shields & flying speed demonstrate roughly mid-range PM level ability. The Extremis upgrades show that to me he's now a low-range Herald.
> >
> > Gamora to me is a legit EM without her Godslayer sword. She's borderline PM w/o the sword, IMO, but give her that sword and MANY argu that she's a solid upper PM with how she wields it, and there's some that feel she's even a low end Herald. I disagree, but will let her stay in at EM with normal human made level dagger/sword. Godslayer upgrades her to PM, IMO.
> >
> How strong do you think Gamora is? She Hulk, before the powerup, was a solid, but NOT top end EM. Would you say Gamora was more POWERFUL than Jen before Shulkie was trained? I certainly wouldn't. She Hulk was SIGNIFICANTLY stronger and more durable than Gamora...otherwise, why wouldn't Gamora fight Champion?
>
> No, Gamora, without the sword, is at BEST a mid range EM, and probably low...I can't consider her stats as better than Thunderstrike, for instance, and his principal sparring partner was the class 100 Bloodaxe, and 'strike didn't have Gamora's skill level going for him either.
>
> As such, I put her in the Fandral/Hogun ballpark...high meta under the old classification, probably low EM under the current. The Godslayer is, IMO, likely comparable to the Thunderstrike mace overall (doesn't have the ranged capacity, but makes up for it in other ways)...which puts her in Thunderstrikes ballpark...top end EM.
>
> > It always comes down to the borderline people in arguments. People on the cusp between two categories. Most know who is what by now, it's just that they're trying to justify a more powerful player at a lower price to see if they can sneak it past the Tourney Director, which is why I have the provision in there that if 3 or more reasonable objections occur, than I'll ask them to repick.
> >
> >
> >
> > > is that those guys who were pulled SPECIFICALLY from the herald level to make a more reasonable distribution have been slowly pushed back into it....so then you want to push the EM limit higher to compensate. What you'll find if you do that TOO far is too big of a meta spectrum (already a problem...how can you justify Vermin vs. Hogun the Grim, for instance).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Lets do a little history lesson:
> > > >
> > > > Initially, there was just Street, Meta, EM, and Herald.
> > > >
> > > > Street was pretty much Captain America and down.
> > > >
> > > > Meta went from just above Captain America (someone like Yondu maybe) up to include Spider Man, and debatably class 50 bricks. EM went up through Iron Man. Herald was, well, herald of Galactus herald.
> > > >
> > > > The result was that there was a huge gap in the EM range and guys like Namor, Wonder Woman, Wonder Man, and several others were hotly debated, but all were herald level at the time.
> > > >
> > > > Thus, the PM classification was created, to take the bottom end of the previous heralds and the top end of the previous EMs.
> > > >
> > > > PM's were ALMOST heralds...they might match heralds in JUST EP or in JUST PHYSICAL stats, but wouldn't have versatility...guys like Immortal Hercules, maybe Magneto, etc. Many have PLANETARY level power, but, like with Magneto, he still has human stamina, durability, reaction time, etc, which limits him when compared to a REAL herald of Galactus.
> > > >
> > > > EM's are called Enhanced Meta's for a reason...MOST of what you'd call 'powerful' superhumans in either universe fall in that category...its the guys who can be both powerful and versatile, or pretty darned powerful in a limited way. Guys like Storm were the DEFINITION of this category. Thunderstrike and Ms. Marvel are BOTH more powerful than Storm, and both at the top end of EM. The Thing, the Human Torch...this is what EM is about.
> > > >
> > > > Think of it like a pyramid...you can only have so many guys at the most powerful levels without invalidating the rest of the universe. Herald should, and does, have ONLY about the most elite non cosmics out there.
> > > >
> > > > Next is PM's...the guys that are almost at the top...but not quite there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > which will change my mind, accordingly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll lock in a pick if it's borderline in my mind, and let 3 or more objections be the deciding factor if someone's too powerful for the level drafted.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > METAs have low level powers or mid level powers that are very one dimensional.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cyclops, the Beast, USAgent, Classic Wolverine (before his healing went to absurd levels), heck, before PM was introduced, guys like Fandral and Baldur were draftable at meta.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Captain America is the bottom end of meta.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > EM is for relatively powerful one dimensional characters, or guys with several powers at the meta level...SpiderMan falls into this category, as he has several meta level abilities (agility, speed, wallcrawling, strength, spider sense, and web shooters). Most 'team level' bricks fall into this category...from about class 50 at the low end to those guys just shy of class 100.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ms. Marvel, a solid to near top end EM pick has about class 50 strength, flight, and limited EP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Songbird can fly, project energy at a pretty high level, and has pretty powerful force feilds that can be effective in a lot of situations. Its definately above what most 'metas' are capable of.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > only has the sonic abilities, that's only one type of power.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Meta's in my tourney have 1 or 2 low range powers at most.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > EM's in my tourney have 3 or more low-medium range powers.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you want me to lock in Songbird, I can, but lets see what others feel, if you don't mind their input. There's plenty who will tell you if she's a legit Meta or a solid EM.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >



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