Celebrating the 40th anniversary of Return of the Jedi

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Subj: Allow me to step in...
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 06:17:48 pm EDT
Reply Subj: A little excerpt from Wonder Woman's character profile on DC's own site.....
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 at 03:42:41 pm EDT (Viewed 111 times)

> Wonder Woman Volume One #105, reveals that Diana was formed from clay by the Queen of the Amazons and was imbued with the attributes of the Greek gods by Athena - "beautiful as Aphrodite, wise as Athena, swifter than Hermes, and stronger than Hercules."
> So yeah, there really IS NO DOUBT, Wonder Woman IS stronger than Hercules. Straight from DC. 'Nuff said.

Stronger...than DCU Hercules, yes.

Actually, lets be more accurate, she is stronger than the DCU Hercules that pops up at *her* title, acting more or less as a villain. If we round down his appearances since the 40`s at the DC house, we have the following comparations:

His strength looks about the same as Superman as per "Action Comics", but lacks the other powers. This was the red haired Superman.

When that Hercules borrows powers from the other Gods, him and pre crisis Superman are *dead even*. Superman only wins by going back to the past and make his opponent follow him, so Hercules loses his memory of the future events, since he is not used to time travel.

(for future reference, see: "Action Comics" v1, #267-268)

We all know DC will never explain the controversy between the post crisis CM and WW, but back then it was kind of simple. The original CM came from another Earth (read "publication house") and that Hercules was not the same "villain" of WW lore, but a sage that would help Billy in all matters of strength.

(for future reference see: "Showcase Shazam" v1)

Back to Superman. On another story, Zha-Vam is made and given powers by the Greek Gods, to face Superman. Zha-Vam sports the strength of Hercules (as another side note, this Hercules wasent the red haired version either, he was visually depicted differently, not to mention acting as full God, while the other still seemed to be acting in the "hero" bussiness). This time, the composite of powers of Zha-Vam, actually made him migthier than his target(he also had abilities from non Greek Gods). As far as strength goes, again, tied up, iirc, or at the very least, and edge to the red haired Giant.

What happens? Atlas shows up and defeats him up close, proving to be stronger to both Z and Superman, as well as Hercules.

(for future reference, see: "Action Comics" v1, #351, 352, 352)

Lets switch to pre crisis Wonder Woman now. J is tired of posting the fight where DCU Hercules lost in about two pages. But under Gerry Conway, the DCU Hercules also ends up defeating her in the same ammount of pages, on an instance where, without her vembraces, she loses control and goes berserk on a city.

(for future reference, see "Wonder Woman, v1 #259)

All this screams to me as "character themes dont matter none, son". The particular theme is so important that even a WW writer had her lose, as well as win. So, where exactly is this automatically superiority *even* to the DCU Hercules? Nowhere. Like about any character, everything will depend on the different views of different writers. The idea of a theme being religiously followed like this, is absurd, as far as common sense goes. Its something made to help sell the character to the audience, and made to be followed like a sacred script.

So, do i belive she is all around stronger than *post crisis Hercules*? Yes. He doesnt have anything close to the overall record of the past incarnations of the company, expect maybe, maybe, two recent stories.

Thing is, this version doesnt cut the mustard. Rare info about his past, no pages about his past exploits, no feats to be credited to him, except for one, that J wil also count for another character, even tho she never did it.

Make that what you will.

> > There's no question that Marvel's strongest roughly equal D.C.'s strongest, and that Herc is probably as strong (or almost as strong, or stronger than) WW. I hate that it's the case, because I find DC feats to be pretty silly, and long for the days when the most you might ever accomplish is pushing over a building.
> >
> > Nevertheless, we know from JLA v. Avengers that Thor is roughly equal to Supes, and that Herc is roughly equal to Thor. To the extent WW is as strong as Supes, she's as strong as Thor and Herc. I don't buy that she's as strong as any of them, personally, for reasons that are pretty obvious. If WW is as strong as Supes but more skilled, then she should beat him every time. Arguing a la J that she's never gone all out against him simply misses the point. That is, arguing that she's never gone all out against him explains why she's never beaten him, but it doesn't explain DC's position that Supes is top dog, i.e., if she is his physical equal, then DC's position that Supes is top dog is false. You can't have it both ways, citing DC editorial as canon yet pointing to the fact of her superior skills. She's either very skilled and not as strong, or DC's not telling the truth.
> >
> > Frankly, I think she's not as strong, but in the ballpark, not as durable, not as fast, but a way better fighter, and consequently just as formidable. Supes, CM, BA, Herc and Thor, however, are slightly above her pay grade.
> >

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