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Would be Watcher

Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To

Subj: Let's be a bit fair here...
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 09:02:44 pm EDT (Viewed 73 times)
Reply Subj: Thor himself stated he initially fights to the level of his opponents, so as to bridle his unfettered might so he don't kill unnecessarily.....
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 07:35:32 pm EDT (Viewed 96 times)

Previous Post

> > Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> > Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
> >
> See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.
> > Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
> >
> You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
> Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.
> > In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
> >
> As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
> You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.
> > Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
> >
> Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.
> > Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
> >
> Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.
> > To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
> That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.
> > What this mean is:
> > that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
> >
> Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
> Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.
Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.

He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.

And so Thor is considered lame and impotent for being good and showing the kind of restraint he's heroic for?

He certainly knows how to "up his game" when the situation calls for it:

He's the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquired Thor's powers and could not defeat him, he said: "It ain't fair!!!" "What's good my strength, my power, if I can't land a blow?", "I didn't know it was gonna be like this!!!" The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood and Thunder.

In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who tripled his strength (Thor #223), and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr (Thor-#238), but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the God Crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal (Thor-#397).

And that's just a FEW times I could list Thor "upping his game" when he feels the need to, but usually he only does so when humans aren't around and cannot be harmed by him so doing. BECAUSE he's honorable.

You wonder about Thor's physical might? How many people do you know that can break Adamantium? Thor, with his enormous physical strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of Adamantium (Thor-#309).

Have we even seen mighty Hulk, he who is "strongest there is", do that?

Thor with his physical strength alone closed a fissure that HE created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded to seal Loki in it under millions of Tons of Earth with the might of his physical might. (Avengers West Coast-#55; I). Now, that's something we saw a VERY amped up WWHulk duplicate on another planet. But hey, I guess Thor's a wimp since regular Hulk's supposed to be strongest there is and yet we've not seen regular Hulk do that, only when he was considerably amped by the WWHulk arc.

How about when Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place. (Thor #272).

Lets not forget about his speed:
Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible (JIM-#94), and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet (JIM-#107). Thor's top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT (Thor #185). Superman, by comparison, is on the record at staying about the speed of light (3 times less faster than Thor can with Mjolnir). And you say Thor's got issues hanging with Superman's Marvel clones? When Thor is embarrassingly out-speeding even Superman by a factor of 3x Lightspeed?

Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: "NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!" And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur(Thor #177). The same Surtur that even Odin with the Odin-Force can't seem to ever overcome completely, yet Thor has single handedly WITH the Odin-Force stopped Ragnarok for good, a feat even his dad Odin couldn't accomplish.

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> actually do here what I fight against 95% of the time on this board. You present the utmost best of your favorite and compare it to the average of the guy you want to put below your guy. It's not fair. If you use Thor's best you also have to use Superman or whoever else best or settle for Thor honest average.

For example:

Superman best flight speed PC are a few times to a few thousands of times faster than light. But I agree it's not his average Post Crisis. However pretending Thor flight speed is 3 times the speed of light or better is not accurate. Heck! superman got more portrayal than thor going FTL. So wheter you use the average for both or the hight end for both. Let's not even enter the realm of super-speed for obvious reasons...

Same for strenght. And BTW, the Midgard serpent is not a good feat to use because of it's nature and absolutely doesn't represent the average for Thor. Superman average and hight strenght showing pulverize Thor's. Thor doesn't got that many of them and they aren't as impressive.

Same for durability. Surviving a nebulous nuke once maybe is not Thor average at all. But it's superman bread and butter. The low showings of thor are also much lower and his hight not as hight.

Also, when you use a clone to demosntrate a point it's wise not to assume they are anything like the real deal. They are not for the simple fact they are Marvel's properties made to loose to their guys. They are, by definition, loosers. Like wise when you use a character only Thor has fought. What does it give us as an argumentation that he could beat Ulik or whatever else when used to compare DC characters?

I don't agree with your conclusions but what I wanted to point out wasn't your conclusions as much as your methods. Be fair and others will be too. At least they'll be more enclined to be.

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