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Post By
Happy Hogan 
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Location: Northern Virginia
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,427
In Reply To
Daveym 
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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: HawkMan vs SpiderMan
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:34:24 am EDT (Viewed 26 times)
Reply Subj: Re: HawkMan vs SpiderMan
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 07:35:02 am EDT (Viewed 33 times)



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> > > > Thoughts on how this battle would go???
> > > >
> > > Not an easy fight for either.
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> > > Let me say straight-up that Spiderman i think is superior at the end of the day, but fighting Hawkman is a completely different proposition to fighting The Vulture. Hawkman has the animal ferocity of Wolverine in combat and is a master at most weaponry, he is extremely durable and will take most of Spidermans initial beatings, he is generations older than Spiderman in the hero game and will be one of the toughest customers Spiderman has fought... what limits Hawkman a bit here is his reliance on the air and need for maneuvorability. Spidermman is far too agile in comparison and can deliver more punishment, i could see him goading Hawkman into carelessness due to Carters temper and pride in combat... either way Spiderman will win 6/10. But Hawkman is not an opponent he can afford to take lightly at all....
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> > I agree that Hawkman is a great and noble warrior, and that he is probably > Vulture. (I'm not familar with the Vulture's latest stats, at one point he was in Spidey's class strenght wise, I don't know if that's still the case.)
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> > Thing is, Spider-Man has a good deal of experience fighing something more than a Hawkman, that is a Goblin. (Several of them, in fact by now) Goblins have high flight manuerablity, ranged attacks, and most of them are in Spidey's strenght class.
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> Agreed, but none of them are noted as great fighters now are they? None of them have the maneuvorabilty and air experience of Hawkman either, several decades worth or more.
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> > On the other hand, Hawkman has no experience fighting anyone like Spidey. DC doesn't have anyone like Spider-Man for Carter Hall to get a frame of reference on what he would be fighting. If they had, and Hawkman had fought such a charater a number of times, I might feel differently about the winged warriors' chances against the web-slinger.
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> Well the problem with that is that Hawkman has been solidly active in the hero Biz since his 1940s debut, That's 6 decades of experience in the hero game fightning stuff we mostly havn't even seen, as compared to Spidermans ten years or so.
First of all, that's not the same guy as the "Golden Age" Hawkman, just like it's not the same Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman. On the other hand, this is the same Spider-Man that Stan Lee created in the early 1960's. As far as I know, with the sliding time scale of comics, all the major DC character have about 10 years of experience, just like the Stan Lee Marvel characters. In any case, no matter how much experience Hawkman has, Spider-Man has more of the pertinent experience for the battle at hand.

> I've seen Spiderman troubled by foes as 'feeble' as Iron Fist, Tarantula & Daredevil and that's something you and others always conveniently overlook!
I admit that Spidey's been written poorly in the past, but I was still going by average showings for both Hawkman and Spidey.

> As a member of the JSA we've seen him fight way out of his class and indeed he was their leader for a number of decades up until their current renaissance. His ongoing feud with Black Adam has seen them clash majorly at least twice and while that's a fight he simply can't win he's still made Adam work for it.

Looking at your scans, it was reminisent of an earlier Marvel feud between USAgent and Hawkeye. I admit that they show Hawkman has a lot of grit to attack Black Adam that way, but it still always seemed as if Black Adam could have killed Hawkman any time he wanted to. I'm not saying Spidey would have done any better against BA, but Hawkman couldn't have attacked the web slinger the same way. Where Hawkman was able to attack BA from behind, Spidey would have sensed the winged one sneaking up on him, then turned and faced him. In other words, a fight against Black Adam is not relevant experince for a fight against Spider-Man.
When I look at fights between two characters that have never met, I can only go by their stats and their experience. Spider-Man has powers that match up well against the winged one, and he has much more experiece againt foes somewhat similar to Hawkman than Hawkman has ever had against anyone like Spider-Man.
Hawkman may be a great warrior, but in this particular fight, he is the beginner and Spidey is the seasoned veteran.
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> > Yes Hawkman is a great force to be reconned with, and an expericed warrior, but in this fight Spider-Man will be the one with the relvelant expirience. And Carter's macho warrior attitude will only remind Peter of an obnoxiouis Flash Thompson, and that will only make him want to beat Hawkman that much more.
> Quite possibly, yes. But you're dismissing this character to such a massive extent i feel you just aren't someone who's aware or follows him to any great extent... as others above have shown in scans he is an absolute physical monster. To say Spiderman is in "no trouble" is facetious and just blithely ignorant of the characters ability and showings.
Yes, I admit to this, and hope it doesn't seem as though I'm disrespecting the character. However it is difficult to repect a character that gets so little respect from DC Comics itself. From what I've seen his orgin keeps chaning again and again. Is he an archaeologist; is he an alien from another world; is he reincarnated? etc. All these confusing retcons mean the writers aren't happy with the concept of the character, so why should we be? And as a reader, why should I care about keeping up with a continually retconned hero? Surely DC will retcon the character again if I try, so what's the point?

I wish DC would treat the character better. He is something rare at that company; that is a good mid-level powered character. Most of the characters at nearly up to (or even exceed) Superman's power level or are down near Batman's level of power. I wish he would get his own book and his own rouges gallery. If he did that, after about 5 years I would feel differently about his abilities in battle.

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