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Member Since: Sat Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 3,200
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Subj: Re: In All Due Respects...
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 at 02:52:37 pm EDT (Viewed 84 times)
Reply Subj: In All Due Respects...
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 at 04:09:00 am EDT (Viewed 139 times)

    And I disagreed, reserving myself the right to ignore either ridiculously high/low showings pwerwise. I agree that continuity is important on a historical aspect, but if we are to gauge powers we should do like the scenarists themselves do and look at concepts.

And that is why you seem so off base in these debates at times. You simply ignore what is printed in the actual comics, and just go by what you think a character should do, instead of how they actually operate.
The only thing, and ONLY thing that has been effective against Superboy Prime is BFR, and that is a temporary solution at best, because, just like he says, he always comes back. Even when his weakness to red-sun radiation was played against him, it took two Supermen to take him down, one died, and the other was powerless for a year.
And no, the writers don't just look at the concepts alone, and base their stories off of that. The concept is always kept in mind, but the continuity is just as integral of a piece of the framework that the character operates in. You are correct, you have the right to ignore high showings, or stuff that you think doesn't make sense, but if you try to bring that opinion into a debate about comparative powerlevels, and the ONLY thing that we have to go on is how the characters actually operate in the comics, then you are fighting a losing battle right from the start.

    It reminds me of WWH; All the guy has is brutal, undeniable physical superiority yet all who opposed them had nothing to offer but brute strenght; Gone, the mentalists, the micro-surgeons, the power-drainers, the time-stoppers, all for the sakes of fly-byes and energy blasts. How fecking convenient.

    You've got these GLs who are supposed to be able to do anything including read minds and travel throught time yet no one can find better than to throw useless energy blasts and get slaughtered wholesale.

    Comics are devoluting, for crying out loud. Marvel gets as stupid as DC in that sector.

He's resisted everything thats been thrown at him. It's not like they are dumbing down the characters to make him seem better. They stuff him in the Phantom Zone for crying out loud. NONE OF IT STOPPED HIM! That is what you are ignoring.
They aren't trying to glorify an icon, as you always try to say about DC. In fact, they are defiling one, you are supposed to hate Superboy Prime. Everything that Superman is to heroes (always stepping up when everyone else fails, getting the job done, and saving the day), Superboy Prime is to villains. He is for all intents and purposes unstoppable and unkillable. He's immune to seemingly every attack, even being disassemble atom by atom, he just reformed elsewhere more powerful than ever. It doesn't really matter if YOU think that he's stupid, or YOU think he shouldn't be able to do that. He did it, plain and simple.
A fight with Surfer would be absolutely no different. If Surfer were to get dogpiled by the GL corps, the Sinestro Corps, and all of Earth's heaby hitters, he would be toast in seconds. Surfer would have gotten his ass handed to him by Sodam Yat. The very point of Superboy is that he is one of the greatest threats that these characters will ever face... there is no containment, there is no reconciliation, in his mind, power is everything... and he has the power to do anything.

    Saying that the GLs can substitute the Surfer is like saying that Cap America can substitute Superman; The Surfer's got a superpowered form; He's got cosmic awareness; he's got thousands of years of experience. More importantly, is the source of his own power.

And anything that he can do with his power, a powerful GL can duplicate. I do think that he's more powerful than all but the elite GLs (like Kyle bottling a supernova), but they are just as versatile as him.

    I never said the Surfer had any absolute; I agree when he loses to Thor or when he looks ordinary facing Terrax; I can sleep well even if I believe that he can be beaten. He has his limits and I recognize them. And no, I'm not too much into his planet-blowing phase actually. You must confuse me with somebody else.

Yeah, he looks ordinary against Terrax. And Terrax was WTF-pwned by Sentry (a flying brick) in what was it... 13 seconds? Surfer has been shown to be beaten by sufficient physical force before. Do you actually believe that Superboy's punches wouldn't have the necessary effect?

    Furthermore; The very nature of the Surfer's power makes that his title is about innovation, or trying to sort out the problem by "thinking out of the box". Thus, we may have a harder case defining what exactly is a Surfer's "standard" power.

No, we have no problem defining what Surfer's standard power is, it's right there in the comics, printed for everyone to see. And just like the GLs, for all of his versatility (something that you clearly overstate), when he gets into a fight, he focuses on punching and blasting. Is it dumbing down? One could argue that it is. One could also argue that it is simply the most useful way to apply the power against an opponent. Why use the ammount of power to transmute someone (especially considering Superboy's ability to resist pretty much anything), when you can blast them to dust instead. It is quicker, easier, and more effective.

    I'll go further and advance that it is also possible for a Marvel character to be written with the same naivité than that of a DC one.

No, the only naivite present is thinking that the only presentation of a character that can make sense is what you think is right. Everything else is bad writing, built upon thoughtless concepts.