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Subj: The caveat "use Mjolnir as well as he usually does" could be tricky....
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 at 12:18:04 am EST (Viewed 72 times)
Reply Subj: Mjolnir without the power of thor?
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 at 02:59:42 pm EST (Viewed 117 times)
I'm not part of the "Thor-just-doesn't-use-Mjolnir-to-its-potential" crowd, BUT we usually see him using Mjolnir as if it's one of the tools in his arsenal (along with his strength, durability, etc.), which is totally logical under normal circumstances. A massive lightning strike or a punch in the face from one of the strongest gods in history, kind of a toss up a lot of the time; he probably goes with whatever works at the moment.
Now if for some reason, Thor is unaware that he's just lost his strength and durability or is too stupid to see how it could cost him, and uses Mjolnir exactly as he does in any other fight, he might well lose all of these as he won't be keeping his now human self out of harm's way. Most of these guys have attacks that could k.o. or kill Conan (or a Conan-level Thor) with one hit if he doesn't watch out.
But Thor's not really that stupid so I will assume he has the knowledge of Mjolnir and the expertise in using it that he normally possesses, and understands what has happened to him and will adapt his fighting techniques accordingly. Ergo...
Thor w/o his Strength & Duribility
vs [not a gauntlet]
1. Green Lantern [Kyle]
I personally think Mjolnir's power is greater than that of a GL ring. I also think Thor IS an expert at using it. But even though he is aware that he will have to rely on the hammer almost exclusively, he isn't as accustomed to fighting that way as Kyle or most GLs are. If the fight happens to turn physical, Conan could overwhelm Kyle about as quickly (though not nearly as completely) as Thor could at full strength. If it turns into a physical brawl for even two seconds, Thor k.o.'s him.
Most of the time, though, I don't see that happening. Kyle is used to protecting himself with the ring at all times (don't the rings even try to shield the users automatically?). As the Dream Lord told Kyle, also, his fear will be an asset - unlike, say, Hal, kyle will be petrified to drop the ring's defenses if he gets a glimpse of Thor's offensive power.
Whereas Thor will not be used to keeping up that sort of defense constantly (and the hammer isn't built for defense quite as much, probably because it was forged for one of the strongest and most durable beings in the universe; he can put up impenetrable shields by spinning the hammer around him and creating a vortex, but he can't really fight while that's going on).
Long story short (sort of), Kyle will have the chance to sneak an attack in here and there from a distance and while safely shielded that will take out a human-durability level Thor instantly.
Of course, there will be times that Thor simply overwhelms Kyle's defenses with the hammer's sheer power and even an incredibly small percentage where Thor manages to bring the fight to a physical level and wins.
But I'll give Kyle a majority here, maybe 7/10. If Thor had years to operate at this level and become accustomed to it, he'd probably turn that around.
Similar scenario here, but I think Mjolnir is more specifically suited to assaulting Mags' defenses (and defending against his attacks). I think Thor could use Mjolnir to defuse some of Mags' shields and assault him with, say, hurricane winds or a Conan-style punch in the jaw. I still give Mags a majority here, for much of the same reasons as Kyle, but because Thor will have better understanding of and counters to Mags' powers, the majority is slighter, probably along the lines of 6/10 or slightly less.
These two know each other well. Both can use that to their advantage. Thor will damn well know to keep away from Herc and attack from a distance, but Herc will be able to withstand a great deal of punishment and use the environment to mount his own distance attacks (Hulk-style handclaps and earthquakes via ground hits, hurled boulders, cars, etc.). He also will be determined to bring the fight to Thor physically and aware of Thor's fighting style enough to look for openings to do so. I guess this comes down to the classic distance fight; can Thor put enough hurt on Herc before Herc gets in close and ends it with one shot? A lot of the time, yes, but I'd say more often than not, no. Herc is too strong and durable, it's going to take a lot of hits to take him out but he only needs one. Herc wins 7 or 8/10.
We can look at this two ways: either Thor already has I.M.'s number and knows how to take him out quickly without using any non-Mjolnir related powers, or I. M. knows how Thor will attack in this kind of scenario and has prepped for it.
If Stark's prep actually works, he probably takes this; Mjolnir still has more firepower than he does but he has more durability than this version of Thor does. And he has the maneuverability, flight and speed to get in and finish Thor off. The human-powered user is Mjolnir's achilles heel in most of these fights, natch. I say that Stark has tried to prep against Thor taking him out like he did before, but still doesn't know how much power Thor can really pump out. So then it comes down to Thor pumping enough power into Tony's suit to overload it before he can get an iron fist in the snoot. Because Thor will come right out of the gate with this attack most likely, I figure he puts Tony down a good percentage of the time, but probably not a majority. Slight edge here to I.M., 6/10.
The Thing is incredibly strong and durable, but not on the level of Hercules. He also doesn't have IM's flight or maneuverability. But Thor will know just as well as with those guys not to get in close and to pour on the EP. Ben can't take it as long as Herc can, and probably goes down before landing a punch more often than not. Thor 7/10.
Not nearly as strong or durable as Ben, but faster and meaner with a strike just as likely to take out, even kill, this version of Thor with one strike (the claws) as Ben has. His healing factor actually gives him a better shot here than Ben, especially as he is more likely to find a way to get to Thor, but I think lightning still does the trick especially to metal skeleton guy. So Thor 6 or 7/10.
7. Dr. Strange
Always a wild card, Strange is an even more vulnerable human here than Conan-ized Thor but has vast mystical power. Mjolnir's power is vast but Strange taps into resources that he doesn't really own himself but can access at will, so an almost unlimited supply of power. Plus he will have access to a greater variety of effects and greater skill at manipulating the power than Thor. And surely knows a bit about Mjolnir's powers and nature.
Then again, he's no warrior and not used to fighting on a physical level; a Conan-level strongman with Thor level skill and a bludgeon that has been effective against the likes of the Hulk is a pretty serious physical threat.
I'd say Strange finesses a win the majority of the time and falls to Thor's still superior physical attacks every now and then.
Spidey wins a few by bringing the fight to Thior using speed, agility, spider-sense and webbing but Thor keeps airborne and attacks with forces Spidey is helpless against most of the time. Thor 9/10. I'd give Spidey better odds than Wolverine except for Logan's healing factor.
Namor should have what it takes to win this. He absorbs lightning, almost any hurricane attack is likely to have some water in it, strengthening him. His strength and durability are close to Herc's level, his mobility is closer to Iron Man's. Thor would probably have to really pour on the punishment with Mjolnir's EP attacks or get creative (maybe using a wind tunnel to dehydrate Namor somehow?) to win most of the time here. Namor 7 or 8/10.
10. Thor [with all his strength and duribility but no Mjolnir]
I say Thor without the hammer with his strength/durability beats Thor with Mjolnir but human level strength. See Nucleon's reply to this thread and my responses to him for my reasoning.
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