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Post By
J

In Reply To
Jaysin1414

Subj: Re: Except...
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 at 02:10:10 pm EST (Viewed 52 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Except...
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 at 11:34:48 am EST (Viewed 47 times)


Just so we're clear, and we have discussed this before, Iron Man is one of my favorite Marvel heroes. I believe that he should be one of the MU's most powerful players. I hate that Extremis is no longer around as I felt it gave him a necessary power-up (with a logical explanation/usage).

Having said that I still don't believe that his speed, strength or durability match up with how he SHOULD be or with other top tier characters like Thor, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc.

Where Tony excels, his strong point, is his brain. And I can see Marvel feeling it is unnecessary to give him a power boost because his brain is far beyond 99.5% of his adversaries.



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      This is a pointless debate. You cite examples of the armor being destroyed yourself and yet you make an argument for the armor being so resilient as to withstand Sentry.



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    I pointed out Living Laser who pierced it and Nefaria that gave an older armor a real beating and it not only withstood his onslaught, but it lasted long enough for Tony to find a way to win. My point remains valid.



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      That's nonsense. And, yes, the issue was CLEAR that Iron Man COULD NOT LAST against Sentry. This is why Tony had to come up with ANOTHER way to defeat him (which he did).



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    To reiterate...clear to you. The fact that Tony found another way to win isn't necessarily exclusive to the fact that he couldn't last against Sentry. What it is is consistent with how Iron Man fights, however. I would happen to agree that Tony shouldn't be able to physically beat the Sentry; however, at no point was it made clear (as you put it) that the armor could not last against the Sentry. It lasted against Graviton and Mallen before the Sentry, so there's little reason to believe it wouldn't have held up against Superm...Sentry.



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      Sentry > Rampaging Hulk. So using the Hulk as basis really doesn't support your argument.



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    And you conveniently left out my mention of Nefaria. Nice. Because, of course, a comparison to Nefaria doesn't support my argument either, does it?



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                Because Sentry is more powerful than Hulk and Iron Man wasn't durable enough to last against Sentry.

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                So... what you are saying is I, and everyone else, *imagined* Iron Man taking Sentry's biggest shots for long enough to devise a way to take down a more powerful character? Iron Man actually got KO'd because he wasn't durable enough to hang in there, right? That's what you are saying, isn't it??

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                  Sometimes you amaze me, you really do.

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                    Iron Man proved he WAS durable to take Sentry's blows *long enough to beat him*, just like he did with Hulk, Surfer, Nefaria, whoever, which is all the original poster ever said and he was spot on.

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                      Cheers.

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            Uhm, no. That is not what I'm saying AT ALL.

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          This is exactly what you said "Because Sentry is more powerful than Hulk and Iron Man wasn't durable enough to last against Sentry."

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              Iron Man was totally outmatched by Sentry. This shouldn't even be up for debate.

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              That part isn't being debated. You're bringing it up and moving the goalposts - but the point was that Iron Man was durable enough to take the best that the Hulk, Nefaria, She-Hulk, and yes...even the Sentry, had to offer long enough to come up with a plan for victory.

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                  Was IM able to withstand Sentry's assault long enough to devise a plan to win? YES. No one is doubting that.

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                  Ummm...according to what YOU said (again, here is your quote "Because Sentry is more powerful than Hulk and Iron Man wasn't durable enough to last against Sentry.") apparently YOU were doubting it.

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                      The point remains that had Tony not come up with an alternate way to beat Sentry (one that didn't involve power or physical confrontation) he would have been peeled open like a tuna can. THAT part is quite clear in the story.

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                      No. The ONLY thing that is made CLEAR in the issue is Iron Man's durability and ingenuity. Everything else is interpretation of the events and drawing one's own conclusion from things unsaid. You choose to believe that Iron Man was about to be opened up like a tuna can. Having read Iron Man since issue #102 straight, I'm fairly certain that the number of folks that have been able to compromise the armor* are VERY few. The rampaging Hulk couldn't do it - so I'm thinking that Tony would be pretty confident that even the vaunted Sentry might have some problems breaking through it. Even Nefaria (classic Nefaria AND Nefaria reboot) was unable to tear the armor apart**. Why should the Sentry be that much bigger a threat than Nefaria (remembering that the Sentry - at that time - had not exhibited the level of power he is now showing)?

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                        I'm not about to tell you how to read comic books here, interpret things however you like. Just understand that whenever you say something is "clear", it is not. It is clear to you - but that represents a consensus of one. Our mileage may vary...

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                            *Please note that I am discussing his own title here...Bendis has made the armor pretty worthless over in the cross-overs and team books, and JMS didn't give it much love either. From the Knaufs and back, the one fairly consistent tenet of Iron Man has been his durability. It was shocking when the Living Laser was able to breach his armor, because of the armor's history of being very resilient...

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                                ** To be fair, Iron Man's second run-in with Nefaria ended up with Shellhead's armor being a ragged mess - but it was still fully functional.



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