Quote:Explain a lot of Ben Grimm's showings then. He's usually the hero and he still loses. World War Hulk was the villian (he brought a squad of powerful aliens into Manhattan, attacked dozens of heroes who had nothing to do with his exile into space and sent many of them into the same type of gladiator pit he escaped from) and he still won until he and Sentry beat each other senseless. Of course, there was the Civil War when one side practically beat the other senselessfor far less of a point than the 1861-65 conflict.
I can sympathize with WWH he was shanghaied so the Illuminati would pass there bill Thing is a midcarder in terms of strength
He was tricked into space, true, and he lost his wife (though somehow she bore two children after the destruction of the planet), but he was willing to kill thousands, if not millions, to get back at a handful, one of whom, Namor, sat out the fight in the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean. Ben wasn't intended by Stan and Jack to be cannon fodder for every Tom, Dick and Harry of both sexes, but to give Thor and Hulk stiff fights even if he lost.