Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Post By
Marvelfan

In Reply To
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,583
Subj: Re: Let's look at the range of fights
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 at 07:38:02 pm EST (Viewed 23 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Let's look at the range of fights
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 at 03:01:03 pm EST (Viewed 269 times)



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      DC works at different power levels.



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    That's a common statement, but it's baseless on reflecting on everything post-Crisis. Silver Age Superman and Superboy worked at different power levels and when we discuss them on this board, we always clarify that we are talking about Silver Age versions. The vast majority of the time, we talk about post-Crisis DC characters, and every time they've interacted with Marvel characters in a crossover, their power levels are pretty comparable.

yes, but these crossover are politics and do not reflect when you compare DC comics to Marvel comics


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      Although it can maybe be argued that Thor has top feats and wins comparable to Superman (but in no way superior) it is simply the case that his lower range in strength and power is simply below Superman's.



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      Thor was challenged by Hyde and Cobra, taken away his hammer by a hydraulic machine, had to struggle against types like El Toro Rocho, almost lost to Mongoose, struggled with Spiderman (ok, it was Masterson but still) and so on.



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      Superman has never had such low level fights (the only exception may be Superboy against Karate Kid which everybody agrees was and is nonsense) and only showed 'real' weaknesses such as against Kryptonite and, to some extent, magic.



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    So Superman has never had such low level fights? Hmmm. Superman has been ko'd by 14-year old kid with telekinesis.

It was still telekinesis, something mindlike if you want and this is likely to have different effects.

Superman has lost to a whip developed by Cadmus.
Well, yes there have been quite a lot of occasions where Superman was challenged by scientific, special weapons - this is normal and happens against almost all super heroes. This is significantly different from 'pure' power strength feats

Superman has been one-shot ko'd by Dr. Light.
I do not know under which circumstances and how.

Superman's been ko'd by a gas station explosion.
Ok, this is a low showing but not as low a several of Thors.  A gas station explosion can create a lot of energy.

We discussed two fights in this thread in which Firelord and Juggernaut were basically unaffected by similar explosions.

Superman just struggled with Deathstroke over an entire issue.
Wasn't Deathstroke prepared somehow?

Superman's has struggled against Batman for 30 years.
Yes, but Batman is always prepared in a quite convincing way and uses Superman#s specific weaknesses. Many of Thor's low showings are not against weaknesses (probably since he does not have any)
 
Superman's most persistent arch villain is Lex Luthor who doesn't even have super powers.
Sure, but this is similar to Batman. Lex uses special technology and other helping to play on Superman's weaknesses.

Well, I could win against Superman, even pre-Crisis, if you give me some Kryptonite. This would still not be a low showing for Superman.



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      Also, some of the assumptions in the ongoing arguments in this thread at odd, e.g. why would Superman be weaker than Durok?



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    Because Durok was beating both Thor and Silver Surfer and broke the Surfer's board with his bare hands. Superman barely edged Thor alone.
you use the crossover again which I said is politics. It sometimes even says so: "in my universe ...," sort of trying to explain the difference away.



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      Superman has always been written on higher levels than the Marvel characters and even in the new films the actors have said the same about the film versions.



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    The film versions are not relevant to this discussion, but your assertion is only an assertion with no proof. I've already brought this up. Can Superman using only his own power cause Galactus to flee?
Quite possibly, yes, if Galactus is unprepared and does not expect such powerful being like Superman to oppose him.

Can Superman using only his own power beat Ego the Living Planet, who has beaten Galactus before?
Easily I would think

Can Superman beat Mephisto in Mephisto's own realm 3 different times?
Yes, I am quite sure about that

Can Superman beat Adam Warlock with the Soul Gem and the Silver Surfer at the same time? 
Yes, although Surfer is one really bad match for Superman, the only real bad match from Marvel.

So has Superman really always been written on a higher level? Thor and Superman both have low showings and high showings. I'd say Thor's highest showings are higher than Superman's.

Holding a black hole? Pressing the mass of the Earth for 5 days ... nothing that Thor has done 'in the normal world' comes even close

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      If anything, it is bad writing then Thor could actually come up with the resistance that he did when he fought Superman in the cross-over.



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    Then all you're doing is saying the comics count only when they support your point of view and don't when they don't support your point of view.





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