Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,583
Subj: John Stewart owned Superman as well, and Big Barda took him down...
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 at 12:24:27 pm EST (Viewed 11 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Let's look at the range of fights
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 at 11:45:17 pm EST (Viewed 225 times)

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    I don't think that Superman is particularly vulnerable to mental attacks. It just seems that on this occasion he was.

Telekinesis is not a mental attack. And "this occasion," Dr. Light one-shotting him, the Bloodhound fight, and the Deathstroke fight all prove my point that Superman has had low showings, just like Thor has.


      You can't very well claim how much more powerful Superman is to Thor and not take into account that Superman has specific weaknesses to magic, energy draining, and Kryptonite. Thor once had a 60-second rule weakness, but that's been long gone.

    With this logic Spider-Man or Captain America is more powerful than Superman since they both don't have any specific weaknesses.

Are you joking? Compared to Thor and Superman, Spider-Man and Captain America have plenty of weaknesses. Neither are remotely as durable. Neither are bulletproof and if Cap doesn't get his shield up in time, he could be killed by anything that could kill a normal human. Neither can survive in the vacuum of space. Both can drown relatively easily. Most importantly, neither have the offensive output that can offset their defensive deficiencies. Thor has Superman's offense without Superman's defensive deficiencies against magic and energy absorption.


      What is Superman going to do, punch Galactus out? Give me a break.

    Well, if Ben Grimm was able to do it, yes I think that Superman could do it. If he goes full throttle superspeed at Galactus and Galactus does not block somehow, I think Supes could knock him out or severally hurt him. You forget that Superman in his heyday was sometimes described as the most powerful being in the universe.

Except Ben Grimm never knocked out Galactus on his lonesome. He just happened to be the last one to hit Galactus after Thor, Iron Man, and most importantly Dr. Strange, who shut down Galactus' mind. And you know I've clarified we've been talking about post-Crisis Superman all along, so trying to bring in Silver Age Superman is disingenuous. Post-Crisis Superman has no chance against Galactus.

    Ego is slow. Superman could destroy Earth if he wanted to (even new version), so he can also destroy a living planet.

Prove it. Show me an example of in-continuity post-Crisis Superman destroying a planet.


      You know that Mephisto is a magical entity who fights with magic and Superman has a weakness to magic, right? But you're sure Superman would beat Mephisto.

    Superman has beaten strong magical opponents in the past. His weakness to magic is overrated.

Superman would disagree with you. Here he says that he's as vulnerable to magic as any mere mortal:

Here magic is cutting Superman to ribbons:

Here Captain Marvel knocks Superman out with a magic punch:

    He would know out Surfer, similar to the way Thanos did and avoids Soul Gem's karmic blast - or maybe he is even immune against it somehow

"Somehow" I don't find your answer of how Superman would beat Warlock and Surfer at the same time very convincing.

    the problem that I have with most of Thor's ueber feats is that they are in the realm of Asgard - I never liked the realm of Asgard stories since they were totally imcompatible to the Thor in our world.

Thor is no more powerful in Asgard than he is on Earth. That's why Odin mated with Gaea to spawn Thor in the first place. Also, none of my examples take place in Asgard. Oh, and remember all those examples of Thor beating Superman analogues like Hyperion, Gladiator, and Captain Marvel (Batson)? Here is Superman's facing a Thor analogue:

both relatively early post crisis, but....

Superman also struggled to lift the Daily planet globe, and in a crossover, struggled mightily against Venom.

All in all, both characters have their high showings and their low showings.  In strength and durability, a good case can be made for Superman to be superior, but not by much.

Overall power, a very good case can be made for Thor to be superior.  If Thor is also not subject to the 60s rule at the time, he also is well ahead in terms of lack of weaknesses, and is ahead in overall versatility.

A fight between the two would and should be epic though...

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