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Subj: Re: and yet
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 01:01:06 am EST (Viewed 217 times)
Reply Subj: Re: and yet
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 at 04:36:04 pm EST (Viewed 247 times)
Quote:uh, i know, i posted the whole fight, even the precursor you did not, save the scenes where no Thor fighting appeared. Did yours add anything to the matter at hand? i mean, i also said no one was Koed, did you even read my post before replying to it? Also, how is this fight, where Thor alone held his own against the 3 heavyweight of the other team while the Avengers fought the rest not a good showing for Thor?
Yes, of course it did. You insinuated that Thor took out Superman and J'onn which did not happen.
Quote:i mean, if you had to list the matchup in that battle, how would you write it?
Supes,Manhunter and Wonder Womn VS Thor
Cap vs Batman
Quicksilver and Hawkeye vs Flash
Iron Man and Vision vs Green Lantern and Aquaman
Wanda vs everyone
I also see Kyle attacking Wanda, Cap attacking Diana and so forth. It was a quick scuffle and Busiek said nobody was taken out by anyone.
Quote:My point with that fight was that needing two people to punch him down didn't mean Thor is inferior to Kalibak, only that he wasn't taking the fight as seriously, and he himself took a double punch in the fight above and was fine.
That's exact opposite of what happened. Giant Man offered to help Thor and Darkseid flat out said that Avengers were losing.
That's why Access brought JLA in the first place. Did you even read the scans?
Quote:And the fact that he was helped by Manhunter to knock down Kalibak doesn't make him less powerful since a similar double punch with Manhunter AND Superman himself didnt Ko Thor.
Nobody said that JLA were losing against Avengers and hence were brought help to level the field, did they?
Quote:I think you see it as those characters as having fixed levels of strenght but i actually think there is more range there, given the respective feats, both high and low. when two people in a comparable range fight, it all depends on their mental state and preparation at the moment, and so one will overcome if they are the ones with the best mindset at the time. There have been times where even KAlibak managed to knock Supes around for a little bit, and others where it was over in two panels. As such, Thor at times takes a long time to bring down Ulik, others he one shot kills his as an afterthought. Multiple times in his history Thor one shotted beings he had trouble even just the number before just because he decided to "get serious". Thor could very well beat kalibak on his own. just for comparison Superman here was knocking around kalibak for far longer than Thor did in the story you posted, but not koing him until Orion showed up and one shotted him with a headbutt.
Did you just post an out of continuity comic for proving your point?
Quote:i see it as comparable. Thor and Manhunter actually took him down even faster than that.
Quote:that was to say that direct comparison don't necessarily depend only on stats, and even people with comparable strenght aren't going to score the same on every single test or day.
Quote:Also, the weaknesses are a crucial part of a match, what would superman do if Thor opened a portal to a red sun core and rushed Supes inside it, or blasted Supes with Red sun radiation, or even used one of the rare magic powers of mjolnir to somehow depower and trap him (like when he miniaturized Hyperion and made him helplessly trapped in a magic snowglobe)? I know, usually Thor prefers to fight phisically because of his warrior code, but if he needed to do it, are you truly sure he couldn't? Could Superman survive a quantum tsunami that tears apart reality and erased the existence of those hit on a conceptual level? because Thor "died" but survived it because people believed in him still (Glory too, but it was a Skyfather level threat so it's more expected from him as such)
Trust me, you don't want to go by one off showings. Superman has a lot more than Thor can do.
Quote:what you would call, the power of a prayer XD it had a big role also in the rematch with Glory
Superman doesn't needs prayers to beat up characters at that level.
Quote:i mean, i can see if you were saying that Superman has better strenght feats, and has more wins in their actually published fights (i think Supes has one win, and the other fights are all stalemates or interrupted), that's acceptable. But saying Thor has no chance, and that he is not a contender is certainly wrong, Superman himself said Thor may have been the toughest he ever fought, and that said by someone who punched Darkseid and Doomsday is a pretty good argument for his strenght not being that far off, even though Supes dial went up to eleven.
Nobody said that Thor has no chance at all.
Quote:adding to the "close" strenght and toughness the fact that he has magic powers and the full power Mjolnir has historically brought to bear when needed, i can easily see occasions where Thor could win such a fight.
Except Thor isn't close to Superman in strength and frankly never has been.