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Subj: Professor/Merged Hulk was indeed stronger at base
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 at 10:44:46 pm EST (Viewed 13 times)
Reply Subj: Re: similar things have been said about Gladiator...
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 at 12:05:40 am EST (Viewed 334 times)

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    but we also know that Thor has fought Glads evenly more than once, and that the Eric/Thor was able to stalemate Gladiator in a direct test of strength.

I don't think Gladiator has ever been stated to be stronger than Thor. In FF 339, he conceded that Thor equaled his own strength.

In Thor v2 35 it is stated by him that Thor is too strong for him to kill.

    Here are a few things we know for sure:

    Superman defeated Professor Hulk, whom many consider less impressive than Savage, and I think almost anyone would consider less impressive than Gravage. This was also fan voted.

Well, that's a misconception since Merged Hulk was by default stronger than savage and punked Red Norvell like he was Thing level in strength.

    Superman stalemated the Gravage Hulk in the later Roger Stern crossover.

Early Byrne age Superman.

    Pre Crisis Superman kind of beat the Hulk, but as Hulk was getting angrier and stronger, the text indicated that Hulk might well surpass Superman, and this is Pre Crisis Superman.

Hulk was only stated to be able to move Superman if he gets angrier. This was also by an external plot device which was making him angrier than usual.

You see, the contest was if Hulk can even move Superman. Not that he was becoming stronger than Superman.

    Superman has repeatedly been shown as equal to Captain marvel/Shazam, and a peer to Black Adam...and this has been in pre crisis crossovers, post crisis, animated, whatever. Action comics 768 goes out of its way to affirm this, when Superman gets the power of Captain Marvel and at the end professes that he considers Marvel his equal in every way

And yet, he has the only win against Captain Marvel when he defeated Cap in Action Comics annual 4 and nearly killed him.

And that equality factor has long been discarded just like Thor/Hulk equality has been discarded.

    Thor convincingly defeated Captain Marvel in a non voted crossover

By controlling his lightning which nearly shorted out mjolnir. He wasn't shown defeating him in a straight fight and in POS 20, Cap alluded he wasn't giving it all.

    We also know that DC Thor lost once to Big Barda (but then so did Superman), and also died fighting alongside WW and Superman in a 1000 year war, but seemed to be peers (and Superman weilded his Mjolnir after his death).

Barda merely surprised Superman who wasn't trying to fight him.

    We know that Supreme was able to kill Thor after a good fight, and weild Mjolnir

Where are we going with this? Image Thor has no comparison with marvel or DC Thor.

    We know that Thor can and has stalemated or beaten Superman knockoffs like Hyperion and Gladiator, but the results are mixed.

Thor has not defeated Gladiator or Hyperion in a straight up fight. Gladiator however did knock out Thor in two punches under Jurgens.

    We know that Thor has repeatedly stalemated the Hulk versions Superman has fought

Not really.

    We know that both tend to hold back and don't use their versatility particularly effectively either, though Thor's holding back seems to be subconscious a lot of the time.

Its quite opposite actually, Superman holds back far more than Thor does.

    All in all, the way they're most likely to fight, I think Superman is probably a slight favorite. That said, I actually think Thor is overall more powerful (his storm, energy absorption, and other Mjolnir type powers make the difference), but in a direct, straightforward way, I think Supes would be a very slight favorite.

That's the opposite of every meeting they ever had. Superman is blatant favorite, stronger and more powerful.

Busiek gave Thor a lot of lip service though.

    BUT, the other opinion can be very easily supported reasonably.

I'm all ears about the evidence in comics that support that opinion.

but for much of his continuity was saddled with Savage Banner, and even when not, he didn't seem to have anywhere near the level of dynamic strength of Savage.

He did still stalemate guys like Dumb Drax, but was also in danger of being beaten a LOT more, and actually was killed by Storm and Cable. Savage had a much better track record overall.

Gravage seemingly has the higher base and higher dynamic strength capability.

as far as the stalemate between Superman and Hulk goes, the story was indeed a retrospective, but no mention made of 'powerups' or anything else, indications were that Superman and Hulk were evenly matched.

As far as Cap vs. Superman, Cap does have a KO against him, albeit a sucker punch. I would pick Supes against Cap too, but not because he's more powerful, but because he's mentally tougher...think Rocky Balboa type win.

As to the Thor vs. Cap fight, everyone seemed reluctant, and the Ferris Wheel, silly as it sounds, was going to be enough to win it. Cap would have lost then and there according to the text if he didn't transform to Billy the lightning manipulation never would have been a factor if he hadn't figured out a way to use lightning manipulation to prolong the yeah, Cap WAS defeated in a straight fight, and reacted to try to prolong it.

I have to check, but I don't recall Cap saying he wasn't giving it his all, but then, Thor also said he had taken Superman's measure, so....

Actually, newb Erik Masterson Thor took down Gladiator and flat out matched him in a test of strength. Gladiator also noted that since Thor was aware and on guard, he was too strong to take out.

And yes, Thor has repeatedly stalemated the Hulk...reportedly holding back in fighting the Professor Hulk in Hel, repeatedly against Savage Hulk, and a few fights against Gravage versions...

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