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Subj: Re: and yet
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 at 07:35:22 am EST (Viewed 162 times)
Reply Subj: Re: and yet
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 at 01:06:10 am EST (Viewed 152 times)
ok, "you don't like the term "no effect" if applied to someone who is not superman. then how about "the same amount of effect" than the Thor hit on superman shown before? both are thrown back, and get up immediately no worse for the wear.
Ok, then since they are "different authors" the kalibak point is null and void because that Superman didn't fight kalibak in that author story and so can't be used as a frame of reference.
Also, even if you wanted a direct comparison of both fights, in one Thor was thrown to the ground and replied after stating kalibak was as strong as the hulk with a punch ( i don't see evidence of "losing" in the actual panel, just of getting hit once) and got backup from Manhunter, as well said to be strong as a hulk, for the ko. in the other author fight, superman was thrown into a skyscraper by Thor and immediately got backup from Manhunter, Thor was thrown to the ground, got back up and fought Wonder Woman. In that specific battle, he might not have wanted help from manhunter, but he got it all the same, the same kind of help Thor got against kalibak.
I'm taking both words in the same frame of reference and considering the context giving them the same degree of plausibility. i think that's pretty unbiased. in that specific occasion under that specific writer, Supes barely beat thor in a straight fight with no magic involved; a Thor who now has taken the measure of the kryptonian's strenght, and would then be ready for it, not getting surprised in a rematch.
In Thor's universe, superman is not called in at all. what do you mean with that? that Supes is more popular in general? i would probably say so, yes, but he is more popular than Eternity too, would he beat the Abstracts then?
Also, in the Godbomb he did die later, yes, but that's not the point. Thanks to prayers, he withstood a universal weapon and took on himself the death of all gods in existence in doing it, survived it, absorbed the Necroweapon that empowered the enemy and he died from it, then resurrected himself 3 days later, as gods are prone to do; the prayer made him able to do the impossible, that's all Thor needs to achieve a goal, no matter how implausible.
not to be antagonistic, but if we consider specific author intent, then of course some would have Superman beat Thor in a "normal" fight more often than not (Jurgens i think said 6/10 in a no energy/magic powers involved fight, but he also said Thor 10/10 if magic use is involved) which i feel is alright if you want to consider it, but far from the be all end all of it. Others might not, and since no single author can establish the complete conceptual frame of reference of a character, it being a melting pot of the potential shown in all stories past and present, i feel that the range of both character permits an overlap in most fields.
Considered the part of Thor's powers connected to the omnipotent odinpower, i think that if at base Superman slightly overpowers him in strenght, he can very much use his own magic plot devices, like Supes can use his solar based ones, to amp their strenght to whatever level necessary, to the point that they both can beat Cosmically empowered Tyrants like Darkseid/Thanos and do the impossible. so in that i see them as pretty close peers if taken to their extreme conclusions.
i think both Superman and Thor have a similar range in direct phisical fighting power to characters similarly capable of the impossible under specific circumstances in a same degree by reciprocal feats shown, like Hulk, Sentry, Blue Marvel, Cap Marvel/Shazam, ecc, all character whose phisical ability and power is undetermined and relevant on specific plot devices that can bring them to a "tending to the infinite" level, with feats on the planetary/dimensional and beyond.
Their main differences in purely direct fighting SHOULD be speed for Superman, and fighting ability for Thor, but both are characteristics usually dumbed down depending on the fight to the point sometimes superman can't tag Batman or Thor can't outfight simple brawlers... so i tend to see a fight as "normally" going close to equal, with just a contextual factor tipping the scales.