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Subj: Re: Rate in power
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 at 12:44:25 am EDT (Viewed 166 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Rate in power
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 at 03:47:01 am EDT (Viewed 238 times)
Uh, Uatu defeated Aron because he was more experienced, not more powerful.
First, Doom did not steal Uatu's powers. Doom stole the power of Aron the Rogue Watcher. Second, Uatu stated, as per the scan below, that he easily defended himself against the powered-up Doom. Uatu is clearly more powerful than Aron, which is again shown when Uatu beats Aron in Fantastic Four #400. Third, Doom stored Aron's power in a battery pack Doom had built. Black Bolt channeled his voice into a device Reed had built called the optimizer, which is what overloaded Doom's battery pack. This indicates that Black Bolt's voice alone could not overcome the power of a Watcher and required its combination with one of Reed's deus ex machina inventions to win.
Quote:Uatu powered Doom was overloaded by Black Bolt's voice.
First, your memory on this story is already suspect given that you thought Doom stole Uatu's power when he had stolen Aron's. Second, the comic doesn't state why Uatu beat Aron, but it doesn't really matter whether it was raw power or the superior ability to use that power. Uatu's overall effectiveness was superior.
Quote:Also Doom wasn't even able to break Sue's force field and then she tanked the explosion from overpowered Doom.
And Doom had no experience with a Watcher's power. You can't have it both ways and say that Aron lost due to inexperience and then say Doom should be more effective when he has far less experience.
Quote:The optimizer was to just enhance the powers of the characters. Nothing more. Hardly a universal power there.
First, I'm not claiming Watchers are universal powers. I'm not sure a fully fed Galactus is a universal power and I'm only rating Uatu 70% of that. Second, as with all deus ex machina devices that Reed makes, you can't quantify it unless it's explicitly spelled out in the comic, which it wasn't. All anyone has is pure speculation.
Yet, he was still beaten by a single shot from Lukatik.
Quote:That Watcher was obeying his non-interference oath and wasn't even fighting back so you can't really call it a fight!
Watchers are clearly glass cannons when it comes to cosmic entities. They may possess vast cosmic and psionic power, but they don't have immense physical durability. That doesn't short change their power level though. Dr. Strange is also a glass cannon at the elite meta level, but no one disputes that he is still tremendously powerful.
Klaw beat the same molecule man. Hardly a good showing for Owen.
Quote:Yes, this was a poor showing for a Watcher, but it's balanced by other higher showings. Aron, for example, beat the Molecule Man.
What? Klaw resisted the Molecule Man's attempt to possess his body and the Molecule Man could not because Klaw's body is made of sound, but that's not beating the Molecule Man. Anyway, if your argument relies on the premise that Klaw is more powerful than the Molecule Man, you've already lost.
Yet, was killed by simple bullets.
Again, this is an instance in which the Watcher wasn't actively fighting.
Quote:Uatu was himself killed by Nick Fury.
They were special gamma-irradiated bullets, and again, Watchers may not have immense durability, but that doesn't mean they aren't powerful. Because of their oath, there aren't that many instances of Watchers showing off their power, but narration has repeatedly stated that they are in the ballpark of Galactus' power.
You are simply going to lowball even though they didn't do anything to him and only pushed him through a boom tube which fractured entire universe? If they were winning, why didn't they simply overpower him
Quote:You're right. I just re-read the issue and the Justice League didn't fight Darkseid evenly. The Justice League was winning. Here is a recount of every page of the fight: Aquaman stabs Darkseid in the chest with his trident while Green Lantern hits Darkseid with a buzzsaw construct. Wonder Woman lassos Darkseid around the neck, choking him. Darkseid punches Diana. Wonder Woman tells Darkseid that she's getting bored. Darkseid attacks her with omegas and she blocks them with her bracelets. Wonder Woman stabs Darkseid's left eye and blinds Darkseid. Aquaman stabs Darkseid in the other eye and blinds him. Darkseid shoves Wonder Woman into the ground. Superman, having been rescued by Batman, appears and punches Darkseid in the chest. Darkseid bear hugs Superman. Cyborg boom tubes Darkseid away against Darkseid's will. So Darkseid gets blinded while Wonder Woman's brushes off his omegas and then tanks two of his physical attacks without using her bracelets while calling him boring. If Darkseid is a universal power, he should at least be able to extinguish galaxies, which have billions of stars and planets, right? That's something skyfather level power has done. But Darkseid can't even beat six Justice League members with little experience.
I posted scans of the fight here:
I'll let people who view these decide for themselves.
Maybe you should look harder. He was trying to eat Apokolips when Mr. Miracle interrupted the process.
I don't see anything in the story stating that Darkseid was weakened. I see Power Girl fighting him over the course of three issues with her getting up after every time he puts her down.
He was weakened and still beat Kara, Val Zod and Fate together.
Quote:How did Power Girl and Val-Zod hold their own against Darkseid for an extended period? Are two Kryptonians near universal level in power?
Now you're just making up stuff. Darkseid, as per your scan, was freed by Mr. Miracle, not interrupted. Darkseid replenished his strength in World's End #11. He didn't fight Power Girl and Val-Zod until World's End #24!
Quote:And he still beat Power Girl, Val Zod and Fate together without much fuss.
Darkseid spends 22 panels fighting Power Girl, who tanks 3 of his omega beams, draw blood punching him, and blinds him in one eye. I'd say your "without much fuss" is a desperate attempt to dismiss the evidence.
Yet omniscient mother box chose CPB as the nearest rival of Darkseid in power. You can't just chose what you want.
Quote:My point is this. Your scans show Hal with that power casually warping reality. An unaugmented Darkseid has never ever shown power like that.
As I pointed out, comics make ill comparisons frequently and actual fights and showings trump statements that clearly aren't true.
Of course he has. He has actually destroyed a whole universe in Constantine.
Quote:A narrative box in an issue of the Fantastic Four described Galactus and Phoenix as the two most powerful entities in the universe. We all know that Galactus at least is not. We all know Darkseid is not a universal power given his actual showings. He can destroy a planet or beat two or three elite metas, but he hasn't even shown galaxy-level feats like Odin has.
Darkseid did not destroy a universe using his own power. He used all the assets under his disposal with Apokolips.
Quote:Heck, his parademons stomped entire universes. Galaxy level is nothing compared to that.
This is reaching crazy levels of desperation. Are you seriously saying parademons are universal-level threats now?
And far more contradicted. Now celestials have created multiverse when it was beyonders who created the multiverse when it was Sise-neg and Alien Entity and whoever else who created the multiverse.
Quote:No. Marvel's cosmic hierarchy, at least through last year's Secret Wars, was far more well defined than DC's.
No, you're not understanding these stories. Celestials created the first multiverse. The current Marvel Universe is in its 8th iteration. There's no discrepancy there.
Quote:He has never been beaten on raw power. He is always entombed which is his psycological weakness. Nabu has created entire universes. Show us Odin or Galactus creating a whole universe.
That's a pocket dimension inside an amulet! It's not a whole universe.
Quote:And you are disregarding every feat ever for any DC character.
Not at all. You just picked the wrong DC characters if you want some who are more powerful than a fed Galactus. I think the following DC characters are all more powerful than a fed Galactus: The Presence, Elaine Belloc, Michael Demiurgos and Lucifer Morningstar at full power, The Source entity, the Anti-Life Entity, the powered-up version of the Anti-Monitor, the powered-up version of Krona, Mr. Mxyzptlk, and a high-end Spectre.
How to make an entrance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49xWJJvpjzI
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