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Subj: Re: Darkseid vs Wonder Woman: WW 36 spoilers
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 at 10:42:27 pm EST (Viewed 213 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Darkseid vs Wonder Woman: WW 36 spoilers
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 at 10:07:52 pm EST (Viewed 209 times)
They did not injure her. She explicitly says that she played possum to appeal to Jason and when she had enough, she broke out casually and was beating both of them.
Wow, that was one of the dumbest things I've ever read. If you're injured, you are weakened. It's as simple as that. When a player in a team sport is hurt/injured, they get subbed out. Obviously it impacts their performace, i.e., it WEAKENS them.
Quote:Hurt? Yes. Weaken her. No.
Quote:We're just going in circles now. We saw them hurt her while she was their captive, regardless whether that was Wonder Woman's intention or not. Her intention to play possum is not mutually exclusive of them hurting her while she is playing possum, which they do on panel for all to see.
She straight up said she was playing possum and she showed that she wasn't weakened by beating both of them. Previously she couldn't handle Grail alone at full power.
So no, she wasn't weakened.
He only stunned her believing she would not fight him.
Are you kidding me? Darkseid blindsides Wonder Woman with omega beams leaving her on the ground for an entire page full of dialogue while smoke is rising from her back. If she weren't weakened, she would get up immediately. This is why I'm loathe to debate you because I have to explain the most obvious, simple things to you, leaving me feeling like I'm lecturing a Kindergartener. And notice you avoided answering why the only time someone can injure someone else is when they're trying to kill them, which is a preposterous response in the first place.
You need show us where that weakened her. She is weaker when Darkseid drains her only.
Quote:So the only time an attack can really hurt someone is when it's meant to kill? Nonsense.
Quote:If you stun someone, you're injuring them! When an MMA fighter gets stunned in the ring, 90% of the time, they are going to lose after that because being stunned hampers their offense and defense.
No, in this situation the writer makes it clear that she was only weakened when he drained her.
Anything else is just your speculation and we know you just don't have it in you to hide your bias against DC characters.
Quote:Are you now suggesting that if you take a page to get up you're weakened? Because that's how much hurt Odin was by one hammer shot from Thor. He was actually on his hands and knees.
Quote:Wrong. Odin is up after one panel. Odin doesn't stay on the ground and spend a page speaking to Thor, which is what Wonder Woman does to Darkseid.
Odin is on his hands and knees while Thor talks to him.
Diana gets up better than him.
So are you saying that the league didn't have his measure after he beats them twice?
Quote:Again, you're conflating a different fight from the final fight. In the final fight, once the Justice League had taken Darkseid's measure and understood who they were dealing with and thus, no longer surprised, they were matching him. And so no, in the final fight, Darkseid didn't ko Superman or defeat Hal.
Quote:No, I am saying just the opposite, that they did have his measure. But I'm guessing your language usage is just incoherent and what you actually meant to ask is why the Justice League didn't have his measure after Darkseid's first attack to which I have to respond incredulously, are you kidding me? The first time the League encounters Darkseid, he immediately launches an area of effect attack that they are plainly not ready for. After they get up, and again, getting up from just being injured makes the League at less than 100%, they immediately fight Darkseid. It's not even two different fights. And saying "they" fight Darkseid is not even really accurate. A just awakened Superman is beaten from the get-go. For some strange reason (hey, perhaps they're injured!), Aquaman, Batman, Cyborg, and Wonder Woman never even engage Darkseid in this fight. Hal is actually the only League member who attacks Darkseid in this whole fight! So to say the entire League lost to him twice is also misleading. They "lost" to Darkseid in a surprise attack, and then subsequently, only Superman and Hal lost to him. Superman arguably only lost to Darkseid because Superman had never seen his omega beams before and this was his first encounter with them. The rest of the team didn't even fight Darkseid.
Darkseid koed them the first time and when they get up second time he knocks them over by crashing Hal into them.
You are saying Superman only lost because he had never seen omega beams and not because they were powerful enough to oneshot him? Are you serious here? The writer was showing Superman koed by not knowing something?
I guess you are.
So you know better than the writer? What was the purpose of that line?
Except Batman's not actually fit to evaluate the situation. Batman only comes through the boom tube on the last page of actual fighting and then makes that statement about 10 seconds later. He didn't see Wonder Woman and Aquaman blind Darkseid. He didn't see the League giving as good as it got throughout the entire final fight.
Quote:Batman said to Cyborg in the last fight that he was their only shot.
Quote:Dramatic effect obviously. Whether I know better than the writer is irrelevant in this case, but do I know better than the writer sometimes? Sure. Sometimes writers make mistakes and there are plenty of instances where readers know better than the writer. There are a lot of bad writers in comics. Johns is about in the middle. None of that changes the fact that Batman makes the statement only seconds after he arrives to a battle he has not been privy to watching.
Dramatic effect? The writer being wrong about the scene he is writing?
You're not even trying to hide that you're making things up now.
And no it is not up to you to decide Batman was wrong all of a sudden.
He was hurt so badly that he didn't even lost his footing and never even expressed pain?
Again, your interpretation skills leave a lot to be desired. Hal says, "A sword and a trident through the eyes, and he's still standing?" That doesn't at all say they did nothing to Darkseid. It actually says they did a lot. The rhetorical question is stating that the League hurt Darkseid so badly and he's still standing?
And they basically said it did nothing to Darkseid at all on the very same page.
Yeah, Wonder Woman plunging her sword into Darkseid's face and blinding him while laughing doesn't look competitive at all.
Quote:At no point the league was able to even look competitive.
Quote:You sure put a lot of concern as to whether someone loses their footing! Except when I posted the scan of Wonder Woman knocking down Zeus, all of a sudden you said that Zeus wasn't hurt at all. Hypocrite. In any case, you stated "At no point the league was able to even look competitive," and it's "blindingly" obvious that Darkseid getting blinded by a laughing Wonder Woman and Aquaman are points in which the League looked competitive.
They pulled a desperate attack to blind Darkseid but it did nothing to him. That's why Batman went to retrieve Superman because the League had no chance of even standing against Darkseid.
No, they don't look competitive when he was tossing them around casually and overpowered Superman like nothing.
Quote:So Darkseid was weakened and still overpowered Superman and the rest of the league casually by your logic then?
Quote:No. Only yours. I don't think Darkseid was casually doing anything here. He certainly wasn't being casual in getting blinded. "Casually" is your word that is nowhere found anywhere in that issue.
He was talking casually and overpowered Superman in a bear hug. The league weren't even able to knock him down with a combined attack.
What else do you think is casual?
That's why they thought of something else rather than sending him to apokolips, right? Oh wait. No they only did what was presented as their only shot.
"Only"? Funny how that word doesn't appear anywhere in Cyborg's statement. Hal asks what else they can do and Cyborg gives him one option. If the League didn't have that option, would they just give up? Of course not. They would think up another.
Quote:They even ask what they can do and they conclude that the only thing is to send him to Apokolips.
Quote:Logic is not your friend. If I give you an option and you take it, that doesn't mean it has to be your only option. And as I already pointed out, Batman wasn't in a position to evaluate because he had only seen a few seconds of the fight.
Batman straight up said that Cyborg was their only shot and he did exactly that, send him to Apokolips.
Batman had seen enough of the fight before that. He was only gone for retrieving Superman and Darkseid was already blinded.
Thor suckerpunched Odin in the face?
Huh? What? What does this have to do with the Darkseid fight? Talk about trying to distract by going off on a tangent when you're losing a debate. So yeah, Thor sucker punches Odin and knocks him down. So what? Odin is a few hundred pounds. We've seen Thor lift billions of tons. You act as if this is how a Thor-Odin fight would actually go when Fraction does show how an Thor-Odin fight actually goes: Odin wins easily. That this happens right after the page you posted demonstrates you purposely being misleading. And in other confrontations, it's the same:
Quote:Around the same time Thor dropped Odin to his knees with one mjolnir shot. That was Fraction Odin who was probably the most powerful he had been since Lee-Kirby era.
Quote:Yes. That doesn't answer any of the questions I posed you.
Do you know what a suckerpunch is? Honestly?
And no, your questions are nonsense.
Quote:And Odin was hurt far worse than Darkseid was. He was on his knees and hands for a full page.
Quote:First, Odin was down for one panel, not a full page. Second, Odin was not blinded, which Darkseid was, and so no, you're wrong.
Odin wasn't hit in the eyes with a sword and a trident. He was on his knees with far less.
You can't even think correctly now.
Being blinded by being stabbed in the eyes is serious damage, far more serious than getting knocked down for a few seconds. You're probably the only person on Earth who would prefer to be stabbed in the eyes to being knocked down for a few seconds. Third, I posted Wonder Woman knocking Zeus down, but of course for you, in that instance, being knocked down means nothing, showing you to be a hypocrite. Fourth, beyond being hypocritical, you're being inconsistent, though this is how you always argue. Above, you were citing the Odin example as Odin, and thus Wonder Woman, not being hurt. You wrote, "Are you now suggesting that if you take a page to get up you're weakened? Because that's how much hurt Odin was by one hammer shot from Thor." Now you're saying Odin was hurt. So get your story straight.
Yes, Darkseid was attacked far seriously and showed less concern about that than Odin did who was on his knees.
Thanks for proving my point.
Quote:Only by depriving Thor of mjolnir. With mjolnir Thor beats down Odin in one shot. By your own logic man.
Quote:First, Odin was not "beaten." Second, Thor's attack was a surprise. Third, you ignore that Odin has beaten Thor many times easily in the past. So is your point here really that Thor is more powerful than Odin? You're just making yourself look foolish.
Of course he was. He was on his knees with Thor standing over him.
Thor has even overpowered Odin in a strength contest in Thor 291 and Loki has straight up said Thor is stronger than Odin.
What's that has to do with a fight?
Quote:I mean, we've seen that if Odin wants to, he can remove Thor's power at any time.
Quote:It means Odin can beat Thor any time he wants to contrary to your assertion.
Because he grants him the power. It has nothing to do with a fight.
Zeus was unharmed by a punch from Diana. Even Ares has knocked down Zeus and Valkyrie has drawn blood from Odin with her sword.
Quote:Okay. Going by your own standard, I guess Zeus ain't all that because Wonder Woman knocked him down. But that's not my standard and not the basis of my claim. We've seen that Zeus is vastly weakened just by overcoming Circe's magic and sending Hermes to Earth.
Quote:So you need to get your story straight. Earlier you stated that the Justice League didn't even knock Darkseid down implying that if they did, that would be an indication of them hurting him. Then you argued that Thor literally beat Odin by knocking him down. But now that Wonder Woman does it to Zeus, a knockdown means nothing? Funny how that works.
Because Zeus wasn't on his knees like that weakling Odin.
Quote:Circe was amped in War of the Gods and the gods were weakened due to being split in two by Darksied. Recently Circe was scared of Ares' sons and said she has no chance against them.
Quote:Show me evidence of the gods being weakened by Darkseid. That wasn't mentioned anywhere in the story. Darkseid himself was in that story getting manipulated by Circe.
It was later retconned in Byrne's run that the Gods were weakened. Not that it matters when Circe was hugely amped.
Odin was exhausted after just healing Thor and sending an army to earth via bifrost too.
We have seen Karnilla match Odin with no amps.
So can Loki to Odin in right context.
Quote:And the Son of Vulcan can just steal Zeus' spirit.
Quote:So what context excuses Son of Vulcan stealing Zeus' spirit?
Same as Odin one. The Gods were weakened.
When did Zeus get killed by Ares? Ares was only killed by Diana as he was vulnerable to the axe which had his own power.
Quote:Zeus has also been killed by Ares who himself has been killed by Wonder Woman.
Quote:Where in the comic does it state that about Ares' axe?
He is only injured by weapons enchanted by himself.
Quote:Zeus was killed by Mikaboshi who was killed by Ares.
Quote:If you're referring to the Ares series, Ares never killed Mikaboshi. His son Alexander beat but did not kill Mikaboshi with a special magic sword, Grasscutter, to which Mikaboshi was vulnerable.
Exactly, same as Ares.
Quote:Typhoon also killed him and then was killed by Hercules.
Quote:Wow, are you just blatantly trying to be misleading now? Typhon was powered up the Aegis breastplate AND this Zeus had the form of a human child with no memory or experience of his power. And Hercules didn't beat Typhon through his own power but had to use water from the River Lethe to give Typhon amnesia!
Typhoon killed hera with Zeus's power in oneshot.
He had beaten Zeus without the Aegis as well. Later Zeus could only imprison him with dropping mount Edna on him.
And Aegis only returned the kinetic force back. It didn't power up Typhon.
Hercules gave Typhon amnesia and then killed him.
Quote:There is always context behind the things you mention but I think you can't be reasoned with the blind hatred for anything DC related that you have.
Quote:So you're accusing me of ignoring context when you just used an example to imply Hercules > Typhon > Zeus while ignoring that Zeus was not normal Zeus, Typhon was amped by the Aegis, and that Hercules used amnesia water to win. Wow.
Exactly. Just giving you your own medicine.
Quote:Also, I don't hate DC at all. Some of my favorite characters are DC characters, and anyone who's been on this board for a long time knows I'm a huge fan of Power Girl, Cassandra Cain, Black Canary, and Watchmen.
Yes, you do. It'd clear for anyone reading your posts.
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