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Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 3,830
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,499
Subj: Re: Going to agree with Motifan, to a degree
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 at 03:19:23 pm EST (Viewed 189 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Going to agree with Motifan, to a degree
Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 at 08:04:04 am EST (Viewed 212 times)

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      What's questionable isn't whether Thanos got more powerful than the heroes. What's questionable is whether Thanos got more powerful solely through his own power than the Living Tribunal. That is what motifian is asserting.
    No, you're trying to define my argument for me and set it up as a straw man. I am specifically referencing the page he most recently linked where Thanos is shown to defeat the heroes of earth, Thor, and Hulk. I believe that page shows with reasonable reading that Thanos accomplished those feats under his own power - which increased over time as the heroes aged.

I know what you're referencing. My point is that with respect to the heroes, it's irrelevant when it comes to the cosmic beings and that's what my discussion with motifian is about.

    As for the pages of him with the LT, I would say we have insuffient information to interpret those pages.

That's what I said and was only proffering a likely explanation given Thanos' history.

    But we DO see him use BB as a weapon. That implies to me that Thanos has been using intellect and trickery to outmaneuver his opponents, rather than some Infinity Gauntlet level weapon (or through his own power ascending to that level through time). If Thanos has ultimate power, it seems an odd choice to haul out BB and stab him to take out celestials. I assume Thanos defeated the LT and others in a similar manner, by exploiting plans against them.

It's possible, but my point is that it's all speculation. Even your speculation goes against motifian's interpretation, which is that Thanos defeated the Living Tribunal with his own personal power. And what possible plan could Thanos concoct to defeat the LT that doesn't involve a power greater than the LT?



        I think the alternate future is helpful to see what could happen, but not necessarily what will happen. Certainly I would not take any feats in a "What If" volume seriously. So just because Thanos might grow a beard, I do not assume he must grow a beard. However, I would now assume he CAN grow a beard. So if Thanos does naturally grow in power in this comic, then I think it is fair to accept that as part of his power set, whether or not the future occurs.
      You can't have it both ways. Either the alternate future establishes canon and gives Thanos the power to beat the Living Tribunal on his own AND forces you to say that whatever happens in a What If? story can also happen in continuity or it doesn't. Battleboard discussions are about power levels and abilities. There is no difference between "can" and "is".
    Again, you're trying to define my argument and then argue against how you've defined it.

Which is perfectly fine if I've defined your argument correctly. What you have to do is tell how I've defined it incorrectly which you haven't done.

    All I have said is that if Thanos is shown in an alternate future to GROW in power as he ages - then that is canon for his powerset. It does not mean it will happen the same way (perhaps he ends up dying, or ascending to godhood with a cosmic cube, etc). But alternate futures still deal with the same actors. They may not always perform the same plays. As I said. If alternate reality Thanos grows a beard. I now view it as canon that Thanos will grow a beard given enough time. Even if his alternate future is UNDONE and never happens, Thanos as a character is still the same, and is still CAPABLE of growing a beard. Whether he does or not is a separate issue.

But that's no different than taking a What If? feat as canon. If normal Thor using only his power defeats the Living Tribunal in a What If? or alternate reality story, then will you take that as something Thor CAN do in Marvel's prime reality? And if not, what's the difference between accepting growing a beard and defeating the Living Tribunal?

    You're trying to extend my position to an absurd conclusion. I am stating a very narrow interpretation of what we've seen so far.

If you apply your same logic to other instances and it leads to an absurd conclusion, then that's evidence that the logic is probably incorrect.

You're not accepting the comic for how it's written and the intention of the authors. The problem is your last sentence and how you feel that by accepting the plain English, it leads to an absurd conclusion, so therefore the logic is probably incorrect. Except the logic is clear, and it DOES lead to an absurd conclusion. You're trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense! It's ridiculous, but the authors elevated Thanos into a universal concept with no lesser importance than Eternity, Death, etc. "The Phoneix burns. Galactus devours. The Watchers witness. The Celestials judge. Thanos lives. Thanos denies. Thanos wins." They've made Thanos' universal role "to win" as his destiny, and this is the book for everyone to know that. Wow, talk about fanboys, to win is now a universally important role because... someone has to win! And it's our boy Thanos who we pre-emptively declare as the rightful owner of the role.

Anyway, it has a much different feel than a What If. For the reasons explained by Man-Beast, and how the plain English explains it, there is absolutely no suggestion that this isn't a possible future for the 616 universe. If it was some alternate universe I could understand, but that's what separates the What Ifs from this scenario, because What Ifs are treated as non-616 realities that do actually happen. Not the case here! And so let the absurdities from the writers stand. That Blackbolt's scream deciminated celestials, and that a young Thanos (our present day Thanos), was able to make future Old man Thanos bleed from the mouth and knock him around, although not really hurting him too badly.

Silly? Yes. Bullshit interpretation? No.

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