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Post By
HammerTime

Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 559
In Reply To
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,343
Subj: Re: Thanos vs. Darkseid (one last time!)
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 at 09:51:27 pm EST (Viewed 46 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Thanos vs. Darkseid (one last time!)
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 at 08:42:14 pm EST (Viewed 53 times)



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      Well, he has but they we’re retconned away. Lost to Masterson Thor and Ka-Zar. Had those not been retconned, would Thanos really look all that superior?





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    Thanos has never lost to Masterson Thor. He's been injured by Masterson Thor, but that's not the same thing. And what are you saying here anyway? That retcons shouldn't count? Because that's what you're implying.


Probably me confusing this:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Yh3UoMSV-sI/WNMa9t7i4HI/AAAAAAAA4eI/kUVNbeGSAnQYCP_nsrUEkoDWoRqAajB8QCLcB/s1600/ig4_28.jpg

With:

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsThanos09.jpg.html

Not saying retcons shouldn’t count, just that if you lump non-retconned Thanos events alongside Darkseid, perhaps the portrayals are more balanced. What I’m really getting at, though, is that DC could easily within one page similarly retcon Darkseid losses and attribute them to avatars like Thanos and his clones. Dc just hasn’t done this, but the fix would be simple, and suddenly, portrayals would be comparable again.


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      I’m not sure if the loss to Squirrel Girl was indisputably retconned but most ignore it because it’s too silly.



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    Really? Squirrel Girl is comedy. You're not supposed to take it seriously.


Yeah, I know. But just asking, is the story canon regardless?


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      And Drax did punch a hole through his chest.



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    Drax was created by a skyfather-level being, Kronos, to be Thanos' magical weakness. Drax was also attacking Thanos while Thanos was distracted, and in Thanos Annual #1, Starlin even retconned this to Thanos being in a "very weakened state." And in their history, Thanos has beaten Drax many times. Again, you need to take the full context into account.


Well, weakened state doesn’t mean a hole punch suddenly goes through your chest, just that you’re exhausted. Yeah, I know about Kronos, but Drax and Thanos fought many times before and it never happened until it did. Maybe Thanos does have a magical weakness, strange how that never prevented him from withstanding prior Drax blows. His arms were green imbued, I’ll give that, but still... I’m certain ive seen Drax elsewhere drclare he was made to be Thanos’ destroyer and then get tatted and feathered.


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      Was never impressed with his durability feats like withstanding a black hole because top tiers do that too.



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    Thanos took Black Bolt's scream. Black Bolt then hit Thanos with subsequent screams that were weaker that Thanos completely shrugged off. There are few durability feats better than surviving a full Black Bolt scream. Also when Thanos fought the Fallen One, Thanos ignited a gas giant planet which completely exploded around him. Thanos wasn't terribly affected but it ko'd the Fallen One.


Yeah, and to be honest, I lost all respect for Blackbolt’s scream, that’s the trade off. It was a total job or a new lowered standard. In fact, if Thor were to now withstand I’d be like yawn. It just doesn’t hold that same regard anymore than when Sentry said a battle between them would end everything. Obviously, everything as we know it didn’t end when he ejected on Thanos, what happened?

Do you think it’s outside some expectation to read that random top tier hero survives an exploding sun? I’m feeling lazy now (texting on iPhone is no fun) but I guess I could google for examples when I feel more up to it.


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      The Surfer series made it clear that he doesn’t think of Norrin as much more than a gnat. That’s impressive. But Norrin is an extreme pacifist, and by design, really shouldn’t have more powerful than the smallest fraction of Galactus’ power who views his heralds as worms in comparison and actually transformed Terrax into one to prove that. Norrin’s durability has been highly inconsistent, so when he gets smacked around, it’s not the same feel when it happens to Thor. And would a writer dare conceive of a Thor or Gladiator getting armbarred by Black Panther - doubt it, but strangely it wasn’t as obvious to writers when it came to Surfer.



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    You're just rambling here. Pointing to outliers in Surfer showings isn't relevant. Should we reduce the Hulk to Princess Python's snake level or Superman's durability to a gas station explosion? Characters have very low showings sometimes. It shouldn't define them and neither should their very highest showings.


It’s not rambling, it’s demonstrating that we don’t perceive Surfer in the same regard which is why Surfer seems to have more outliers. Surfer is the main top tier people point to when differentiating Thanos vs top tier level. When he first met Loki, Loki was blasting and harassing him, and instead of fighting back, Surfer literally sulked on his board, flew away, and Loki had to chase him to continue a provocation. He’s a pacifist, not a warrior. And so when he jumps into Thanos’ face, I’m immediately thinking he’s only half hearted, not really channeling what he can truly do.

Hulk and snake, shoes and fas station, come on, not comparable. Especially dupes, he’s battling doomsday and boom! Gas station explosion. I didn’t even notice the significance until people made a big deal. But what if black panther sneaked behind dupes and arm barred him? I would have noticed, and I just can’t see an author writing the absurdity.



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      Outside of the clear gap between Thanos and Surfer, when has he demolished a top tier that led no doubt? And I don’t mean one shot backhands or knocking heads together as suggestive evidence - Darkseid does that to Suuperman all the time - but a true butt kicking where the other is decimated and cant continue?



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    In the very DC/Marvel crossover you were citing, Thanos beats Terrax easily and the observation is made that Thanos is "a hell of a lot more powerful" than Terrax. Also Thanos beat Beta Ray Bill in a fight leaving no room for doubt about his superiority. Right after that, he two-shots Ronan the Accuser.


I don’t consider Terrax a top tier.... maybe others do because yes he’s a herald, but still. Surfer is the most powerful herald, Terrax a notch below. And do you remember who Kyle called upon to save him from Terrax? Superman, but Thanos showed up instead.

And Beta Ray Bill? Come on! I’m asking for a non-expendable top tier character, not somebody with a jobber ready contract in place. Otherwise Superman goes toe to toe wiling Skyfather level beings like cythonna who could fight sun god rap on fairly equal terms.


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      how he defeated Maker Beyonder without informing that Maker has only a fraction of true form Beyonder power and was a mortal form willingly allowing it to suffer much more damage.



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    The Maker had the nigh infinite power of the Beyonder, she was just in a physical form. Thanos is able to exchange several energy blasts with her before using psi to destroy her mind.


A fraction is my claim, not nigh omnipotent. I could look into that though, but that’s what I’m gathering - that the power level was substantially less.


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      Why is it so indisputable that he’s substantially more powerful than a top tier? When has he team busted a team that had more than one or two top tiers?



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    Thanos and Adam Warlock beat the Annihilators (Beta Ray Bill, Gladiator, Ikon, Quasar, Ronan the Accuser, Silver Surfer). While Thanos was weakened by Death, he was beating the entire Imperial Guard minus Gladiator until Gladiator showed up. The narration later stated it would have been "impossible" for the Imperial Guard to have won had Thanos not been weakened. Thanos was winning against the Ultimates (Black Panther, Blue Marvel, Captain Marvel in Binary form, Miss America, and Spectrum) until Blue Marvel came up with a plot device machine that beat Thanos. The only time a single top tier has beaten Thanos (though it was really a Thanos clone) one on one was when Thor was powered up by enchanted armor and his belt of strength against an also powered up Thanos (clone).


Did Thanos actually choose to fight Gladiator or teleport him 200 miles away? I guess some believe BFR counts as a win but I’m not sure I do.





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