Comic Battle >> View Post
·
Post By
HammerTime

Member Since: Sun Jan 07, 2018
Posts: 686
In Reply To
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,492
Subj: Re: Thanos vs. Darkseid (one last time!)
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 at 12:50:36 am EST (Viewed 59 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Thanos vs. Darkseid (one last time!)
Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 at 11:02:29 pm EST (Viewed 45 times)



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Not saying retcons shouldn’t count, just that if you lump non-retconned Thanos events alongside Darkseid, perhaps the portrayals are more balanced. What I’m really getting at, though, is that DC could easily within one page similarly retcon Darkseid losses and attribute them to avatars like Thanos and his clones. Dc just hasn’t done this, but the fix would be simple, and suddenly, portrayals would be comparable again.



    Quote:
    That's just a really weird way of making a point that's not making a point at all. You're saying that if the comics were written differently, we would have a different interpretation of events. Well, of course, except they weren't written differently, so you have to take them as they are, not what you clearly want them to be.


Well, the point I made is that Thanos simply has authors, namely Starlin, dead set on retconning any bad showings where Darkseid has no such advantage. Minus the retcons, they’re similar IMO. It’s not that they were written differently, it’s that one character has a routine fix-up todesperately erase another author’s true intention of Thanos losing cleanly. I’m pretty sure they stole the Darkseid avatar concept, just like they stole the IG glove from Darkseid’s killing glove,. It’s why some consider a Thanos a cheap imitation, apparentlyBusiek did and even Darkseid himself somehow knew.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Really? Squirrel Girl is comedy. You're not supposed to take it seriously.
      Yeah, I know. But just asking, is the story canon regardless?



    Quote:
    I think Marvel is leaving that up to the reader.


In that case, by your own words, it’s okay for me to accept it as canon. I don’t even think squirrel girl is top tier, is she? What are her feats, and in your opinion, has Darkeid ever been KO’d by someone so lowly? Surely it can’t be near as bad as losing to dc icon Superman, right? Has darkseid ever lost to someone sub-Superman level?


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          And Drax did punch a hole through his chest.
        Drax was created by a skyfather-level being, Kronos, to be Thanos' magical weakness. Drax was also attacking Thanos while Thanos was distracted, and in Thanos Annual #1, Starlin even retconned this to Thanos being in a "very weakened state." And in their history, Thanos has beaten Drax many times. Again, you need to take the full context into account.
      Well, weakened state doesn’t mean a hole punch suddenly goes through your chest, just that you’re exhausted.



    Quote:
    That's not necessarily the interpretation to take in comics. In a world of super powers, not having your usual powers, in this case Thanos' full durability, is a weakened state. Starlin doesn't clarify on the specifics here, but his clear intent is to say that this wouldn't have happened to a normal Thanos.


But I thought it was Drax’s skyfather punch, not Thanos weakened state, that caused the chest hole punch. The only reason for a retcon would be an admission that there was nothing special about Drax’s punch, that Thanos was indeed weakened. So when weakened, his molecular structure loses density and is susceptible to body hole punches. Interesting...



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Yeah, I know about Kronos, but Drax and Thanos fought many times before and it never happened until it did. Maybe Thanos does have a magical weakness, strange how that never prevented him from withstanding prior Drax blows. His arms were green imbued, I’ll give that, but still... I’m certain ive seen Drax elsewhere drclare he was made to be Thanos’ destroyer and then get tatted and feathered.



    Quote:
    So what's your point? Drax attacks a Thanos who is both in a "very weakened state" and distracted, and you want this to indicate that Thanos is not very powerful?


Sorta, or at least not as powerful as commonly esteemed.

And whether he was distracted or not now has an impact on his durability against body hole punches?


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Thanos took Black Bolt's scream. Black Bolt then hit Thanos with subsequent screams that were weaker that Thanos completely shrugged off. There are few durability feats better than surviving a full Black Bolt scream. Also when Thanos fought the Fallen One, Thanos ignited a gas giant planet which completely exploded around him. Thanos wasn't terribly affected but it ko'd the Fallen One.
      Yeah, and to be honest, I lost all respect for Blackbolt’s scream, that’s the trade off. It was a total job or a new lowered standard. In fact, if Thor were to now withstand I’d be like yawn. It just doesn’t hold that same regard anymore than when Sentry said a battle between them would end everything. Obviously, everything as we know it didn’t end when he ejected on Thanos, what happened?



    Quote:
    I see. So anytime Thanos looks good, it doesn't count because whoever he looks good against is jobbing. Got it.


No, it’s just that he waded through a Blackbolt blast that didnt destroy half the planet, end reality, nothing as intense as the magnitude readers have been led to believe BB is capable of. Very minor surrounding damage, a huge letdown. Had BB’s scream destroyed the planet in the process, okay, I’m with you. but nothing like that happened.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        You're just rambling here. Pointing to outliers in Surfer showings isn't relevant. Should we reduce the Hulk to Princess Python's snake level or Superman's durability to a gas station explosion? Characters have very low showings sometimes. It shouldn't define them and neither should their very highest showings.
      It’s not rambling, it’s demonstrating that we don’t perceive Surfer in the same regard which is why Surfer seems to have more outliers. Surfer is the main top tier people point to when differentiating Thanos vs top tier level. When he first met Loki, Loki was blasting and harassing him, and instead of fighting back, Surfer literally sulked on his board, flew away, and Loki had to chase him to continue a provocation. He’s a pacifist, not a warrior. And so when he jumps into Thanos’ face, I’m immediately thinking he’s only half hearted, not really channeling what he can truly do.



    Quote:
    Wow, way to distort the context. When Surfer first met Loki, Surfer didn't know who he was. Surfer was in a hopeless and anguished state being trapped on Earth and didn't care about living in that moment. That is totally not what Surfer is normally like for the vast majority of his existence. There have been many instances in which Surfer goes into battle fervently. His battle with and loss to Thanos is one of those instances. But I see. For you anytime Thanos looks good, it doesn't count because whoever he looks good against is jobbing or not putting his full effort into it. Got it.


Im not arguing that it doesn’t count, just that considerations have to be made. Surfer to me is like a captain Picard with fighting skills. Even if he appears fervent, it’s still captain Picard. Norrin radd by nature is a pacifist, not a warrior. I’m not convinced that he engages in battle with the same determination or intensity, which might even impact his durability.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Outside of the clear gap between Thanos and Surfer, when has he demolished a top tier that led no doubt? And I don’t mean one shot backhands or knocking heads together as suggestive evidence - Darkseid does that to Suuperman all the time - but a true butt kicking where the other is decimated and cant continue?
        In the very DC/Marvel crossover you were citing, Thanos beats Terrax easily and the observation is made that Thanos is "a hell of a lot more powerful" than Terrax. Also Thanos beat Beta Ray Bill in a fight leaving no room for doubt about his superiority. Right after that, he two-shots Ronan the Accuser.
      I don’t consider Terrax a top tier.... maybe others do because yes he’s a herald, but still. Surfer is the most powerful herald, Terrax a notch below.



    Quote:
    I see. So anytime Thanos looks good, it doesn't count because whoever he looks good against is a jobber. Got it. Terrax has beaten virtually all the other heralds outside of Morg and Surfer. Terrax has destroyed a whole planet with one swing of his axe. Terrax is no weakling.


Terrax to me is low top tier, like Steppenwolf or Wonder Woman. Strong, but no match for a real top tier. Have you seen the recent JLA movie? Steppenwolf was beating up on Wonder Woman and Aquaman but was nothing but a rag doll to Superman. Steppenwolf once drove his axe on Superman’s shoulder and Superman was completely unfazed. “Hello, invulnerable?” Is what Superman said, in fact.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      And Beta Ray Bill? Come on! I’m asking for a non-expendable top tier character, not somebody with a jobber ready contract in place. Otherwise Superman goes toe to toe wiling Skyfather level beings like cythonna who could fight sun god rap on fairly equal terms.



    Quote:
    I see. So anytime Thanos looks good, it doesn't count because whoever he looks good against is a jobber. Got it. See, anyone could argue like you, i.e., completely rationalize and then dismiss every example brought up, but what you're doing is no longer using reason to choose, you're just choosing your reasons.


BRB has been beaten by Surfer just as bad. “You are no match for me” said a very mellow and pacifist Surfer trying to talk out of a fight.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/superman-vs-silversurfer-19863/


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        The Maker had the nigh infinite power of the Beyonder, she was just in a physical form. Thanos is able to exchange several energy blasts with her before using psi to destroy her mind.
      A fraction is my claim, not nigh omnipotent. I could look into that though, but that’s what I’m gathering - that the power level was substantially less.



    Quote:
    I was being generous. But I'll save you from looking into it and show you exactly what the comic says: "His inquiries have led him to one being of infinite power. They call her the Maker - but once she was known as the Beyonder." But I know, I know, it doesn't count because the Maker was jobbing.


I still insist onlooking into this. I certain there is missing context.


    Quote:




    Quote:


      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Why is it so indisputable that he’s substantially more powerful than a top tier? When has he team busted a team that had more than one or two top tiers?
        Thanos and Adam Warlock beat the Annihilators (Beta Ray Bill, Gladiator, Ikon, Quasar, Ronan the Accuser, Silver Surfer). While Thanos was weakened by Death, he was beating the entire Imperial Guard minus Gladiator until Gladiator showed up. The narration later stated it would have been "impossible" for the Imperial Guard to have won had Thanos not been weakened. Thanos was winning against the Ultimates (Black Panther, Blue Marvel, Captain Marvel in Binary form, Miss America, and Spectrum) until Blue Marvel came up with a plot device machine that beat Thanos. The only time a single top tier has beaten Thanos (though it was really a Thanos clone) one on one was when Thor was powered up by enchanted armor and his belt of strength against an also powered up Thanos (clone).
      Did Thanos actually choose to fight Gladiator or teleport him 200 miles away? I guess some believe BFR counts as a win but I’m not sure I do.

    So are you going to concede that Thanos has team busted some powerful teams or are they all jobbers to you (again)?


Powerful teams, sure. But not like he teambusted anything eye opening that I couldn’t see Darkseid doing. He boom tubes Gladiator away first and then handles himself.




Posted with Apple iPhone 11.0
Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2018 Powermad Software
All the content of these boards Copyright © 1996-2018 by Alvaro Ortiz and Dave Galanter. Software Copyright © 2003-2018 Powermad Software