Well, you are a big Superman fan so that's expected.
Quote:Yes, there are defeats for Darkseid that I did not enjoy. That superman defeated him is not a problem for me. I can easily see Thanos replacing Darkseid and the result would be the same.
Yes, Starlin is overprotective, but that has nothing to do with whether the retcon should be considered canon. Obviously, Marvel editorial approved the retcons and allowed them to be published.
Quote:You say Thanos has never been defeated by top-tier that way. I say he was humiliated by far less than that more than once, albeit retconed at every turn after. Even when the comic was clearly humorous in tone (talk about being insecure and overprotective).
Quote:Darkseid had a retcon too telling us all the previous times he had been defeated was never his true self. Yet, for some obscure reasons, many accept Thanos retcons with pride no matter how ridiculous some are. But Darkseid's? No. Never.
The only possible retcon I'm not accepting here is the ambiguous one that people attribute to Action Comics #586, which is now being featured in a DC collection called Superman vs. Darkseid. I'd say that makes pretty clear that DC considers this story to be about Darkseid fighting Superman.
Was Superman vs. Darkseid: Apokolips Now! retconned? No. Was Batman/Superman #13 retconned? No.
Quote:Superman has beaten him, we cant accept the retcons.
Quote:Squirel Girl, beats Thanos, we readily accept any lame retcon. The NYPD cuff him, after looking like a fool to spiderman? Lets forget about it. Ka-zar defeat him? Never happened! Thor defeat him? It was of course another clone. Guardian of the Galaxy? Nope, retcon we readily accept.
I have reservations about the Thor retcon, but if you had a comic with the Gotham police handcuffing Darkseid, I bet you'd have no problem with DC retconning that away! Are you saying retcons are never justified?
It is true that I am a Superman fan, but that has little to do with my reasoning.
I mean, unless you limit Thanos portrayal to his fight with Odin and surfer doing nothing to him as the be all end-all, and you reject the Guardians of the Galaxy and the avengers as well as the ultimates (let's leave it at that for now), there is no reason to think Thanos is simply out of top-tier threat range. Specially good showings top-tier range (Thor and Superman have scary good showings after all).
But more importantly, you are missing the essence of what I'm saying. I couldn't care less if A was canon and not B. What bothers me is how you (as well as a lot of other posters) seemingly cherry pick which retcon excuse count and which does not. A clone or an avatar? is there really a difference in the plot driven here? Why accept one and refuse the other?
If, like you say, the only retcon you refuse is the action 586, I don't see the problem. Desaad was later said and alluded to have impersonated Darkseid several times as well as using Avatars.
But even if we take Action comic at face value and stop trying to excuse it with avatars and impostors, I do not see what the problem is. Darkseid's downfall was only possible via him eating his own omega-beams. A plot device I hate and that was used WAY too much, but at least Byrne was the first at the time.
Back then, the omega beams were a super scary powerful attacks. Superman was fleeing it always and Darkseid was shown casually eradicating even someone like Aggog who could treat Orion like a bug.
More importantly, since then we had final crisis, new 52 and rebirth... Are we really going to ignore all the occasions they clearly took to try different approaches to all characters each times?
As he is, Darkseid is now portrayed as a huge fight for a team like the JLA. Thanos is currently similarly portrayed when facing teams over at Marvel.
- Battle Scan: Superman vs. Darkseid: Apokolypse Now! · zvelf · Tue Jan 30, 2018 at 11:18:59 pm EST
- Re: Dan Jurgen's take on Darkseid, Doomsday, and Superman · zvelf · Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 01:59:33 pm EST
- I never understood the double standard about Darkseid... · Would be Watcher · Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 04:48:10 am EST
- Re: Battle Scan: Superman vs. Darkseid: Apokolypse Now! · motifian · Wed Jan 31, 2018 at 10:39:48 pm EST
- Agreed. *NT* · Knight · Wed Jan 31, 2018 at 08:02:30 pm EST
- Third Battle Scan: Superman vs. Darkseid: Batman Superman #13 · zvelf · Wed Jan 31, 2018 at 07:46:47 pm EST
- Another Battle Scan: Superman vs. Darkseid: Action Comics #586 · zvelf · Wed Jan 31, 2018 at 07:37:56 pm EST
- Why Supes is top dog in DC when it all comes down to it. · MysteryMan · Wed Jan 31, 2018 at 10:12:12 am EST
- Agreed. That is the difference between Superman and other top tiers. (no text) · Bk Ray · Wed Jan 31, 2018 at 02:14:53 am EST
- Re: Battle Scan: Superman vs. Darkseid: Apokolypse Now! · HammerTime · Wed Jan 31, 2018 at 12:59:30 am EST