Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: I never understood the double standard about Darkseid...
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 11:01:42 pm EST (Viewed 163 times)
Reply Subj: Re: I never understood the double standard about Darkseid...
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 06:14:32 pm EST (Viewed 162 times)


      I mean, unless you limit Thanos portrayal to his fight with Odin and surfer doing nothing to him as the be all end-all, and you reject the Guardians of the Galaxy and the avengers as well as the ultimates (let's leave it at that for now), there is no reason to think Thanos is simply out of top-tier threat range. Specially good showings top-tier range (Thor and Superman have scary good showings after all). 

    I actually agree with you that Thanos is closer to the likes of Thor and Surfer than he is to Odin. Someone, I think it was Bk Ray, took a poll of the board as to how many herald-levelers it would take to beat Thanos. An average of the responses was 4 I think. That probably translates to about 3 peak/top tier herald-levelers, and that's pretty reasonable given Thanos' showings and general threat level. For example in Infinity, he was handling Thor and most recent version of Hyperion (about as close to a Marvel Superman as you're going to get) and winning. Hulk was initially in the fight, but Thanos didn't have much trouble with him either. In another survey, the board said that it would take almost 4 Thanoses to beat Odin:


And then he lost to Thane straight up, a bargain basement top tier if there was one.

And Hyperion was already exhausted fighting black order. Thanos wasn't fighting both Thor and Hyperion straight up.


      But more importantly, you are missing the essence of what I'm saying. I couldn't care less if A was canon and not B. What bothers me is how you (as well as a lot of other posters) seemingly cherry pick which retcon excuse count and which does not. A clone or an avatar? is there really a difference in the plot driven here? Why accept one and refuse the other?

    Because if 95% of the depictions of Darkseid is an avatar, then it really doesn't matter that we treat the avatar as the real Darkseid. The avatar is effectively the real Darkseid in all but semantics. The existence of the real Darkseid may be there to save face for the character, but since that version almost never appears in comics, what's the point in discussing or evaluating that version of the character? Like Braugi said, wherever we mention Darkseid, just assume we mean the avatar.

Not all avatars are equally powerful.

    More importantly, since then we had final crisis, new 52 and rebirth... Are we really going to ignore all the occasions they clearly took to try different approaches to all characters each times?

    As he is, Darkseid is now portrayed as a huge fight for a team like the JLA. Thanos is currently similarly portrayed when facing teams over at Marvel.

I agree that DC has corrected itself and made Darkseid a true teambuster since the New 52. He's still in the range that Superman could pull off a win, but Superman would be and should be a big underdog. Prior to 2011, Darkseid's average depiction was clearly lower.

How is Superman taking off a win when Darkseid has oneshotted him twice now?

And how was Darkseid's average lower?

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