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Subj: Re: other issues that imply DS is not significantly above 'top tiers'.
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:51:49 am EST (Viewed 48 times)
Reply Subj: Re: other issues that imply DS is not significantly above 'top tiers'.
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 11:45:51 pm EST (Viewed 58 times)
Name one fight where Darkseid had any trouble with Orion unless it was a staged fight (Orion 5) or Orion was powered up (Countdown).
Quote:Nonsense. Darkseid and Orion have fought many times at length. If Darkseid beats Orion quickly, that is the outlier.
Orion wasn't powered up in Countdown. In New Gods #6, Orion alone attacks Darkseid on Apokolips, Darkseid flees, they fight briefly, and Orion knocks Darkseid down. Darkseid then has to resort to a firing squad of Apokolips soldiers to down Orion. So clearly Darkseid "had trouble" with Orion here or else he would have defeated Orion on his own.
Quote:Otherwise Darkseid straight up owns Orion who has straight up conceded that he is below Darkseid in power and equal to Kalibak.
Orion has beaten Kalibak repeatedly.
Quote:Darkseid vs Orion from Adventure Comics 459. Darkseid defeats Orion with a single energy blast.
As usual, your example isn't even a fight! Darkseid sucker shots Orion, who by the way isn't even ko'd and then Darkseid flies off! Strange how you consider Orion to be defeated simply because he's on his hands and knees here but considered Wonder Woman completely fine in the same position after Darkseid blindsided her and in that instance, she stayed down for over a page with smoke coming out of her back, all so you could say that Wonder Woman was 100% when facing Darkseid.
As for the rest of your links, a bunch of them don't work. A bunch of them are about Kalibak, who's a jobber half the time, and is irrelevant to Orion in any case. A bunch of them show Orion going toe-to-toe against Darkseid, which completely undermines your own point. And the rest are misleading in that several of them aren't even fights. In your Jack Kirby's Fourth World example, Darkseid sneaks up behind Orion and grabs him and everyone just talks. Orion never fights back. How is this a fight? How is this a defeat for Orion? In your New Gods #6 and #8 examples, Darkseid returns from the dead and takes over Orion's body out of the blue. This is not a fight. In #8, Darkseid just blasts Orion, who is still okay afterward. How is that a defeat for Orion? Then take the Great Darkness Saga, you even admit this is an Orion clone, one that Darkseid does not consider the true Orion and you use that as an example? Nevermind that Darkseid was powered up in this story by having absorbed the powers of Mordru and Time Trapper. And even this fake version of Orion can go toe-to-toe against this powered-up Darkseid for a while and clearly damages him.
And your scans that Darkseid threw the fight in Orion #5 is well established and wasn't a point of contention. Braugi brought it up because for it to even make sense, for it to be believable, Orion has to be able to beat Darkseid in the first place.
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