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Subj: Re: other issues that imply DS is not significantly above 'top tiers'.
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:51:43 pm EST (Viewed 129 times)
Reply Subj: Re: other issues that imply DS is not significantly above 'top tiers'.
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:51:49 am EST (Viewed 164 times)
Name one fight where Darkseid had any trouble with Orion unless it was a staged fight (Orion 5) or Orion was powered up (Countdown).
Quote:Nonsense. Darkseid and Orion have fought many times at length. If Darkseid beats Orion quickly, that is the outlier.
Quote:Orion wasn't powered up in Countdown. In New Gods #6, Orion alone attacks Darkseid on Apokolips, Darkseid flees, they fight briefly, and Orion knocks Darkseid down. Darkseid then has to resort to a firing squad of Apokolips soldiers to down Orion. So clearly Darkseid "had trouble" with Orion here or else he would have defeated Orion on his own.
Yes, he was. Darkseid did not flee from Orion. Scans please?
Quote:Otherwise Darkseid straight up owns Orion who has straight up conceded that he is below Darkseid in power and equal to Kalibak.
Quote:Orion has beaten Kalibak repeatedly.
Darkseid has outright incinerated Kalibak with just a touch.
Quote:Darkseid vs Orion from Adventure Comics 459. Darkseid defeats Orion with a single energy blast.
Quote:As usual, your example isn't even a fight! Darkseid sucker shots Orion, who by the way isn't even ko'd and then Darkseid flies off! Strange how you consider Orion to be defeated simply because he's on his hands and knees here but considered Wonder Woman completely fine in the same position after Darkseid blindsided her and in that instance, she stayed down for over a page with smoke coming out of her back, all so you could say that Wonder Woman was 100% when facing Darkseid.
I considered WW defeated by Darksied too. In WW, he wasn't trying to hurt her, just lure Zeus.
And you have a strange theme of marking any attack as a sucker shot when it suits you.
Quote:As for the rest of your links, a bunch of them don't work. A bunch of them are about Kalibak, who's a jobber half the time, and is irrelevant to Orion in any case.
Which part are those?
A bunch of them show Orion going toe-to-toe against Darkseid, which completely undermines your own point.
Again which part are those?
And the rest are misleading in that several of them aren't even fights. In your Jack Kirby's Fourth World example, Darkseid sneaks up behind Orion and grabs him and everyone just talks. Orion never fights back. How is this a fight?
What are you talking about? Darkseid overpowered Orion and was about to kill him until Highfather intervened. The reason Orion didn't fight back was because he couldn't.
How is this a defeat for Orion? In your New Gods #6 and #8 examples, Darkseid returns from the dead and takes over Orion's body out of the blue.
He killed Orion and created a new body. That's a defeat by any standard.
This is not a fight. In #8, Darkseid just blasts Orion, who is still okay afterward. How is that a defeat for Orion?
Because Orion was in a berserker rage and Darkseid incapacitated him easily.
Then take the Great Darkness Saga, you even admit this is an Orion clone, one that Darkseid does not consider the true Orion and you use that as an example? Nevermind that Darkseid was powered up in this story by having absorbed the powers of Mordru and Time Trapper. And even this fake version of Orion can go toe-to-toe against this powered-up Darkseid for a while and clearly damages him.
Highfather changed the clone to exact Orion. Darkseid was weakened in the future and even after draining Mordru and Trapper, he was still not at full power.
You had such a high standard for anything about Darkseid. The clone did not go toe to toe with Darkseid, he punched Darkseid a few times and then Darkseid incinerated him.
I don't know what it takes for you to consider a good feat for Darkseid. You seem to try to find a low showing in everything.
Quote:And your scans that Darkseid threw the fight in Orion #5 is well established and wasn't a point of contention. Braugi brought it up because for it to even make sense, for it to be believable, Orion has to be able to beat Darkseid in the first place.
No, it doesn't. Darkseid purposely threw the fight from start to corrupt Orion by thinking he killed Darkseid.
And even there it was omega beams reflecting back on Darkseid was what seemed to kill him. Not anything Orion did.
You guys are so desperate, it's not even funny now.