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Post By
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,261
In Reply To
motifian

Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 2,250
Subj: Re: As a baseline, I put Thor and Surfer both at 15, Loki at 12...but I may have been a little low on Loki
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 at 11:27:48 am CST (Viewed 70 times)
Reply Subj: Re: As a baseline, I put Thor and Surfer both at 15, Loki at 12...but I may have been a little low on Loki
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 at 01:26:32 am CST (Viewed 86 times)



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        Superman is clearly "aware about" Orion here too and still got ko'd. Superman even dodges Orion's initial attack but then gets downed easily.
      If by clearly you mean not at all, sure. This was the first meeting between Superman and New Gods, there is nothing to indicate he knew who Orion was.

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      Ah, I see, motifian's latest made-up rule: first fights don't count! LOL!
    If one party is not taking it seriously? Sure.


Your excuse above wasn't that Superman wasn't taking it seriously but that this was his first meeting with Orion. Second, there's no indication whatsoever that Superman isn't taking this fight seriously.


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        I like how you discarded Superman's own statements because it throws a wrench in your theory.
      What discarded statements? I haven't omitted anything. But what about Orion's statement when after Superman punches him, and he says, "That almost hurt," and Superman is stunned that his haymaker didn't do much of anything at all. After that, Orion one-shots Superman.
    Orion was boasting because he is arrogant like that. He said he wasn't hurt by HV even though he was clearly hurt and overpowered by it.


The fact though is that Superman hit Orion, who simply shrugged it off and then Orion one-shot Superman.


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    Superman wasn't stunned by his haymaker not working. He was just questioning Orion.


Just questioning = complete surprise that his punch only "almost hurt" Orion.


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              Now it doesn't count for Orion because Superman is young but somehow it counts for Darkseid! You repeatedly change your standards depending on whether you like the character. The catalogue of you doing this is almost endless.
            Superman was playing around with Orion and got stunned for a few panels.
          Oh, now it's Superman only got "stunned," but then you claim that stunning an opponent is a win for you. Every instance you pointed to of Darkseid beating Superman was far less persuasive than Orion clearly and cleanly beating Superman here.
        Yes, stunned because he wasn't taking the fight seriously. It's neither beating Superman much less beating him cleanly.
      First, Superman is just plain knocked out. Second, it's a clean win. Superman is engaged in the fight, dodges Orion's first attack, punches Orion to little effect, and then Orion one-shots Superman. It's a clean, easy win. Third, you yourself stated that your criteria for a victory is simply stunning someone. So you count the below as Darkseid beating Superman (this one page is literally the entirety of this non-fight that you called a fight) and Darkseid blindsiding Wonder Woman as a win, but you don't count this as Orion beating Superman! Pretty funny, but the joke's on you.
    Superman is stunned for one page when he is not taking the fight seriously, gets up and oneshots Orion. Later he straight up overpowered Orion when not playing around.


I see that you can't deny that you hold different standards for wins/losses based on whether you favor the character at hand. In your version of Darkseid beating Superman, he's briefly immobilized, still struggling to free himself, and never actually even attacks Darkseid in this non-fight and you count that as a defeat. Orion knocks Superman completely out, carries off Superman's limp body by his cape, opens a boom tube, takes Superman elsewhere, and only then Superman wakes up, and that's somehow not a defeat! You say Superman is stunned, but Orion actually tells him to "Wake up." You don't wake up from being stunned. You wake up from being unconscious, which is what Superman was.






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    Only you will think it shows Orion was more powerful than Superman.


I was responding to your saying that Orion has NEVER looked superior to Superman. I wasn't saying that in general Orion is more powerful than Superman, which is debatable. But certainly in this instance, Orion looked superior to Superman and knocked him out in a clean fight.





THE POWER OF EMPATHY IN THE MCU:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy1zKcddbNk
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