Community >> View Post
·
Post By
seeker

In Reply To
Reverend Meteor

Subj: Re: Atheists unite!!!!
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 03:10:46 pm EST (Viewed 1 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Atheists unite!!!!
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 01:37:01 pm EST (Viewed 4 times)

Previous Post

> > > This is just something I’ve been wondering different people’s opinions on for awhile. It is not intended to offend anyone or their religious beliefs nor is this being used for anything besides my own personal curiosity.
> > >
> > > One justification for human dominion of the planet is that humans are a superior species or of a higher order of species than others.
> >
> > We have fire and opposable digits...we are superior. The problem is we're also very stupid \:\)
> >
> Ironically true. We are at the same time the smartest and dumbest species on the planet.
>
>
>
> > > With all of that in mind and assuming for a moment that gods are of a higher order above humans AND that G-d or gods are real what are your opinions/answers to the following questions:
> > >
> > > Remember, for the sake of discussion assume that the being in the question is real, is a higher order of being, and what the claim is.
> > >
> > > 1.    Inspired by Neil Gaiman’s The Sandman, is the greatest thing a human can achieve in life to die at the hands of G-d since doing so would serve a higher power and at the same time dispel any questions about the existence of such beings? What if it was dying at the hands of a polytheistic god such as Apollo?
> >
> > I'm not a fan of dying to serve someone else's agenda
> >
> > Besides Apollo was a pederast...
> >
> I just cited Apollo as an example. I wasn't trying to get to specific.
>
>
> > Pretending for the moment that he's real....I guess he has the right to do what he wants.
> >
> > My problem is not what he does but what he expects out of us. He can't expect us to be perfect if the world isn't perfect
> >
> I wonder about that often as well.
>
> >
> > This is why I can't buy into the concept of "God". I can't accept that this aloof omnipotent being chooses to do nothing to help good people yet demands their obedience.
> >
> I've thought about it at times and it is one of those problems. If you do too much people would depend on G-d too much. Not enough and the world goes down the toilet. One view is that G-d does enough to let the world gets by, but due to free will allows humans quite a bit of freedom. Of course, if you are suffering this doesn't comfort you much.
> How much does G-d help before he becomes a dictator? Rebellion anyone?

A part of me has always wondered if God was real maybe he just created the universe and left it alone after the work was done. He gave us free will. What we choose to do with it is on us. Maybe holding him responsible for the problems in our lives is a little unfair.

> > > 4.    What about a lesser god such as Ares, ancient Greek god of savage warfare or Tyr, Norse god of honorable warfare? Does he have the right to strike down a mortal who has offended him? What about an entire community? Would it depend on the god? (Ex. A more benevolent on such as Baldur or Athena)
> >
> > Sure. I stomp on ants and roaches.
> >
> That's one perspective. If the ant or roach could think they might take issue with that, but since from one view gods are so far above us we would b like that to them.

True.

> > > 5.    If G-d wanted you to die and told you it is for the good of Earth, but would not explain why would you do it?
> >
> > um...what makes you think I WOULD do it if given the choice?
> >
> Inate human goodness? :-/

I truly wish I possessed that.

> > > 6.    What if polytheistic god wanted you to die without explaining why and claimed it was for the good of Earth? Would you go ahead and die? What if they explained it to you? Would it depend on the god? (Ex. A more benevolent on such as Baldur or Athena)
> >
> > If given the choice I would let earth suffer along with me \:\)
> >
> If your dead you may not be suffering. \:\-D

That's how I view death. When you die you die. You're just a cold corpse. So to do anything to hasten my death seems completely illogical to me. If I ever have children then I could understand a heroic sacrifice.

> > > 7.    Should G-d be held to the same standards as humans? Or due to being beyond human are He/they beyond human concepts of good and evil or at least human judgment and morality?
> >
> > I guess it depends. If "God" holds us to those same standards and expects us to be good not evil then he really shouldn't hold himself in a position to be evil. If God can be evil then why should we worship him?
> >
> > > 8.    The same above except this time for gods instead of G-d.
> >
> > Yes. Since they aren't everything, just aspects of this thing or that thing I guess they aren't perfect just like humans.
> >
> But if they are aspects would not they perhaps be so fundamentally different from humans that the same morality may not be applicable to them?

Maybe that makes me a hypocrite. I am hypocritical on a wide array of subjects. I agree that they may be beyond good or evil but we do not look at say Apollo as being perfect. But organized religion tends to bestow that honor to God/Allah/Yahweh. I would never bow before a non-perfect being.




>
> A part of me has always wondered if God was real maybe he just created the universe and left it alone after the work was done. He gave us free will. What we choose to do with it is on us. Maybe holding him responsible for the problems in our lives is a little unfair.
>
IIRC, that is called deism. The clockmaker view of G-d that was popular during the Enlightenment of Europe and some of the founding fathers of the United States. If gods and spirits existed and interfered in the world there was always a chance that physical constants were not constants. At the same time it was still almost unthinkable to not believe in G-d. So, a compromise of sorts was struck.

As to the question is G-d responsible for the problems of are lives I can think of arguments that could support either side of the debate.


> > >
> > If your dead you may not be suffering. \:\-D
>
> That's how I view death. When you die you die. You're just a cold corpse. So to do anything to hasten my death seems completely illogical to me. If I ever have children then I could understand a heroic sacrifice.
>
Its been awhile since I read Aristotle's treatise on the soul, but you view sounds close to that. I don't recall if Aristotle ever outright stated he did not believe in an afterlife, just that humans in their living state were the only things on Earth that possessed a soul.


>
> Maybe that makes me a hypocrite. I am hypocritical on a wide array of subjects. I agree that they may be beyond good or evil but we do not look at say Apollo as being perfect. But organized religion tends to bestow that honor to God/Allah/Yahweh. I would never bow before a non-perfect being.
>
I think everyone is a hypocrite on some level including myself. Humans are imperfect beings who cannot always live up to their standards. However, I do think there are some people who are bigger hypocrites than others. (For the record I am not saying you are a hypocrite.)

From what I understand in ancient times the view of good and evil did not exist the way we understand them. There was a natural order to the universe and for better or worse you were supposed to follow it. If you did not bad things happened. That is one reason the Greek philosophers spent so much time debating on the proper way to live. The gods were in some view more forces of nature than anything else. (Though the Olympians seem to have been viewed as more human than the primordial Titans). One worshiped the gods because they could make your life very difficult and being gods it was the proper order of things to show them respect. Crimes like murder were wrong not so much because they were evil, but death caused a form of spiritual pollution that had to be cleansed. So in a way this could be viewed as a form of evil, but there was at least a subtle difference. Afterall, neither the fates nor the gods necessarily rewarded moral behavior. They typically rewarded those who followed them and gave them the most sacrifices. Even if you did all the gods commanded you could still end up on the receiving end of their wrath for some reason.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.6 on Windows XP
Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2022 Powermad Software
All the content of these boards Copyright © 1996-2022 by Comicboards/TVShowboards. Software Copyright © 2003-2022 Powermad Software