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Reverend Meteor

Subj: Re: Article: "People Have NDEs while Brain Dead"
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 at 05:37:44 am EST (Viewed 895 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Article: "People Have NDEs while Brain Dead"
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 at 11:08:57 pm EST (Viewed 7 times)

    When I was about 4 on a night I was sleeping over at my grandparents house I had what I thought was an out of body experience when I had the croup and had to be rushed to the emergency room...I asked my grandparents about the things I remembered during this experience when I was a teenager and my details were apparently all wrong...I remembered riding in an ambulance but my grandmother says they drove me to the hospital, about being resuscitated (I had a high fever and was unconscious but I did not need to be resuscitated) etc

Interesting and very relevant. I love that you tested the hypothesis.

    I certainly don't want to poop on anyone's religious beliefs but I don't buy the out of body experience stories when I hear them anymore than I do the UFO stories (my dad swears he saw one) or people seeing angels (my aunt swears she saw one). I think we all want to feel special...some of us go so far as to tell these stories in order to get that feeling of being special. Some of us even believe them...I think people think what they want to...if a logical conclusion isn't immediately available to them (or sometimes even if it is) people will go with what their heart wants to believe logic be damned.

Yes. It may include a desire to feel special, but it also includes the fear of death, at least for me. I want to continue forever. Accepting empiricism means accepting materialism which means accepting the absence of any afterlife. That isn't the logical conclusion I wanted. But it's the one I must accept unless I reject materialism, which means rejecting empiricism, which I find I can't do, however much I may wish I could.

    To me science and logic explain everything. We may not be smart enough or have the tools available to solve every mystery the universe presents us with but that does not mean science as a problem solving method is flawed...our understanding of it may be flawed (and almost certainly is in some fields like the recent revelation that there is water on the moon). Maybe I'm not wired correctly because I can't accept things on fate or flights of fancy like out of body experiences or aliens. If there is a God I think he must have given us the ability to think and to reason so we might see his design for what it is and come to respect it. God wouldn't want blind mindless obedience...he want people who can think for themselves and find a way to express the gifts he gives them.

If I take a Deist perspective, which means I posit a God who created the universe with immutable laws and then left it to its own devices to evolve as it would, then I accept a God who is perfectly satisfied with Nature red in tooth and claw, and a humanity whose teeth and claws are the reddest by far of any mammal. I can go with that, but Occam's Razor leads me to posit the immutable laws without the God. What I can't go with is the notion of a God who has the sort of ideals many humans hold dear, because Nature doesn't display those ideals.

    Reverend Meteor (I strayed too far from the topic didn't I? My apologies)

No, you got to the heart of the matter. Thanks for doing that.