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Post By
bd2999

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,108
In Reply To
MysteryMan

Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 637
Subj: Re: I will put this up here because the "Right" dont seem to post these as much as the "Left" here...
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 at 11:33:37 am EDT (Viewed 145 times)
Reply Subj: Re: I will put this up here because the "Right" dont seem to post these as much as the "Left" here...
Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 at 08:03:02 am EDT (Viewed 134 times)



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    I don't think we are disagreeing too much so I will address posts you asked questions in and say I agree with the rest.



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          I think the nobody would be for either of them.

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            That said, I think hypocracy is in play for many on the right at this point. As many calling for civility now were doing these things in terms of horrible gestures. Many were not shooting people up but there were examples of it. Just not congress people.

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          There also were not multiple instances of campus rioting over comedians acts and free speech. Many of those defending Griffith were telling the students how wonderful they were for not letting the right wing nut jobs have their speech. (I agree that the speakers they were referring to were nut jobs, not on preventing them from speaking)

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        It really depends on the argument you want to make though. What she did was protected by free speech at least in respect that it protects anything. That people were upset is also valid.

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          I am not supportive of what she did, but do not think it is Earth shattering or enough to stop criticism.



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    I don't either, but to clarify I don't think she should be defended for her actions as the "victim" here either (not that you did).


I agree, but the victim card seems to be the go to in many cases


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      I am not sure I follow the right wing nut jobs sentence. What are you referring to?



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    I forget his name the Brietbart guy that was chased off campus. I really don't remember the names of pseudo-famous people very well.


I am just not familiar with the incident I guess.


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          Does not make what is done ok or what was done ok at all. I just think we need to be careful with blanket covering ideology. There are issues with some things on campuses in terms of the ideological left more than anything.

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          That's fair as well...though in my blanket I cover them both. BOTH sides are guilty of pointing fingers as they speak out of the side of their mouths. The "Right" have been doing it all through Obamas terms.

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        And sometimes it is valid though. My issue is the context that this sort of thing should restrict criticism. At least that is what I was taking your initial question for pondering as being.



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    Not trying to restrict criticism...I do think it should be more constructive...or at the least funny? ;\)


I am not only talking about my initial interpretation of your comment. I have heard others make similar content. As they have almost meant it to restrict all criticism.


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      The right had justified criticisms of Obama, the left has legit for Trump. It does not excuse the extremes on the sides.

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            On the right, I think the fact that there is a counter reality by the conservative media (that Trump seems to live his life by) is a huge problem.

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            I think anyone who looks at the news rationally can see there is an extreme left bias to it. They can also see that Trump just spouts lie after lie after lie and plays the victim card at every turn...despite being guilty of a good percentage of what he is accused of.

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          I disagree with you. I think there are a few organizations that are left leaning, but there are more than are left leaning or what I would call sensationalized.



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    Suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I'll just say I think there are quite a bit more left leaning shows on tv and there is a constant deluge and attack on the RIGHT on "these" shows. That said the "LEFT" have quite a bit of justification and are generally funnier and more entertaining so that's a factor in it as well.


If you are considering comedy than sure. Many, I would say most, political shows and comics lean that way to some degree or another. I just meant I do not really see standard network news as much one way or another.

As many of the mainstream media were pretty happy with whatever the story was so long as it ruined somebodies day.

IMO, and in my perfect world, there would not be ideology on the news of any sort. There would be reporting what was known at the moment, the possible implications, what is going or likely to happen next and so on.

Policy would be discussed for issues of national debate. Maybe they have ideological folks come in with a view, but it would be made clear that is what they were. Most of the floor time would be devoted to experts on the given material talking about what is known, what is not known, what are the pros of the policy as is, what are the cons, what it costs vs the benefit and so on.

I feel for any issue we, I include myself as well, fall into traps at times of cherry picking. Intentionally or not. Most issues are complex. Especially on a national stage, but the best way for the electorate to hold those in power responsible is for them to understand what is happening and why. Most people do not. Even before ideology factors in, we should know as much as possible and go from there.

The media also needs to be a fact check on those in power, as much as possible. This is sometimes harder than others but it needs to be done. I worry at times it gets too petty or nuance or cute even, but the big things need to be pointed out. What is wrong with what person x said, what really happened and so on.


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      Also, the right wing media is basically hate news as far as I can tell. There is not really a left equivalent to that. Maybe MSNBC but that is more a counter of sorts to Fox, but even then not a good one.



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    Have watched a little Fox...sometimes they actually see reasonable and put for a few valid points...but its not their standard MO. If it was I think they wouldn't appear so terrible at times... a lot of times. But I do find it interesting when I am trying to workout and I can see CNN and Fox news side by side at the gym discussing the same topic. It seems more enlightening than just watching one of them.


Fox is not all bad, they are just one of the standards. All of Fox's opinion shows are from a conservative perspective. Some extremely and some less so but they all are. Their actual news reporting is usually not too bad. However, pending things, they are more or less likely to cover a given event.

I would consider MSNBC more the liberal equivalent of Fox than any other station. I have not watched much of any of them recently. So, cannot comment on the others too much. I know Fox Business, CNBC, Fox News and some other higher up stations veer right on various issues.

Does not make them right or wrong, just saying. I know when I have had my car fixed or have maintenance done recently I have been pretty frustrated by hearing Fox Business in the background. It is one sided on any issue, unless there is a panel of like 8 and 1 is the other view.

Not all views are equal but to me hearing a segment on climate change and potential regulation should not just have folks interested in a given company making money. It may be ok to have a few but some of the others should be experts on potential regulations and a different view of the impacts and others who know the science and can give another perspective. A bunch of guys in suits complaining about all regulation and if climate change is even real does not do the viewer much good other than potentially reinforce bias.


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      I am just not sure I establish ideology based on treatment of Trump or anything. As the media should hold him accountable. They sometimes do better or worse jobs about varying topics, but most media tries to bend over backwards to account for whatever percieved left leanings they have.

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        CNN for instance has hired a handful of Trump apologists that will support him to the end to show that they are not left leaning. And that does nothing to help anyone either.



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    I think it is their "left" leaning attempt to make the right look so bad. Because these apologists rarely look intelligent.


I am not sure I look at it that way. CNN also followed the Tea Party express around. I look at it as more of a trying to balance what some think of them. And to try and be a part of what they think may be a trend.

I do not think some on the right need much help making themselves look bad. Same for some on the left, but given a fairly loony strain is in power right now, it is worthy of more of the blame I think.


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          The president deserves all the criticism that he has gotten to this point. Does not mean that some people will not do things they should not. It always will, but I see no reason people should not be free of critiquing the president.

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          Oh by all means. He has much to be called out for...I prefer not to hear about how he gestures, the 1000th joke about tiny hands or eats 2 scoops of ice cream etc...its just petty attacks. But hold his feet to the fire...he has much to answer for I agree.

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        I am not really talking about those. I actually do not have issues with many saying those things, but rather the media not get involved with those.



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    To clarify...I agree. Comedians have at it. But breaking NEWS? It's clearly sensationalism for their profit and agenda and not to educate/inform the masses.


I agree.


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      It is a bit hard for those criticisms to not come up from more "normal" folks. Given how petty the president is. He seems to have derogatory terms for quite a number of his critics. Whic hsi not ok for the president.

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            If anything, it is a bit disturbing to me that Trump is not held more to task for the staggering numbers of outright lies and half truths he and his administration tell that warrant the harsh criticisms in the first place.

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            He does seem to be pathological in his lying...either that or hes extremely talented at manipulating things on a unheard of level with his chaos.

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          I think it is the former. I think the later is incidental for the most part. The misdirection thing is sometimes a good idea but he seems too egotistical by most accounts to be able to stay even remotely above things.



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    That's where my money would be too...but at the same time I was wondering about this from the very start of his election run. I don't know how to do it myself...but I am able to discern there is a way to spread chaos and make the media march to your tune...and hoodwink the masses (including me).


IMO, it has more to do with the short attention span of the news media and the population. Distracting attention is fairly east to do with the average person. I think Trump is good at it not so much for planning but he can naturally move from starting one fire to another. And the media has no clue what to cover and how much at times.

There seems little coordination even in the WH, the stories from different officials can be very different. So, I think the end results are the same at times but not sure there is much planning involved.


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      He is much too personally invested. That is the cause of many of his issues. I do not think he can stop tweeting to save his life.



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    So the way to make him implode is to have his service provider block his service? ;\)


Probably


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          Also, you are incorrect, the Gifford thing is discussed a few threads down. I am not sure why you think the political right has to be championed here. Neither ideology is inherently right or wrong.

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          Agree...but go ahead count up the posts. There is a clear bias. Both sides are guilty of trying to not take the blame for their own actions. I'll give you the "Right" is doing this at a higher rate...but at some point you just have to hold them BOTH accountable.

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        I am not sure the posts of this board reflect too much IMO. I mean it is fair to discuss the issues.

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          I do take some issue with intense politicization of issues like this. Hypocritically, many of these individuals resisted all manner of things for any discussion after other major gun attacks. But when it is a congress person of a given party than one side is uber interested.



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    Well honestly I think the "LEFT" came out and expressed quite a bit of outrage for the act and concern for their colleagues and that in a rare moment both sides seemed to temporarily bury the hatchet and wish the best for each other.


I am not disputing that point. I am talking more about some of the talking heads. At least initially there was some degree of unity. It lasted like an hour or two.

Then it was back to who to blame the event on in the first place. We know the guy was uber anti-Trump and had a bad history. He apparently legally had a gun and went and shot people. A horrible act that was fueled by extreme ideology. Not the first time this has happened. But many of the times that it has happened it is often pushed under the rug. This time it is not because it happened to somebody in power.


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      I imagine that liberals would be bad too, I am just seeing an intense level of hypocrisy with this. And part of it is extreme polarization by the president. Seems there is nothing he will not try and make sure there are lines between and people on sides. Good way to keep your base happy, but most people do not like that sort of thing.



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    Personally I feel that for the RIGHT this hypocrisy has been non-stop for decades. What worries me is the LEFT I now feel are joining in...and we all lose for it.


To a point, but if it already was happening and not being addressed on one side than the other side will eventually give in as well. It is not right but people do what they can get away with.


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