Community >> View Post
·
Post By
bd2999

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,108
In Reply To
MysteryMan

Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 642
Subj: Re: Social Justice Warrior branding
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 at 05:00:12 pm EDT (Viewed 95 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Social Justice Warrior branding
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 at 02:35:39 am EDT (Viewed 104 times)



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          This came up on a Spider-man board, and I thought it would make a good discussion here.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          I'd say it can pop up anywhere...though those leaning to the left are not likely to use it, they will use some other term like misogyny, "insert word(usually a color)" power...and so on.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        To a point, but you are comparing the term SJW to more extreme thoughts on the left. They are used in the same way and neither is really acceptable most of the time.



    Quote:
    There are extreme left views, and they are just as wrong as the extreme right views. But words change over time. SJW has become a term for people who jump on the popular band wagon wrt to leftist policies without even understanding the issues. Basically a new term for drinking the kool-aide. There are many terms that change over time.


In my experience it is used in the same grain as calling someone a snowflake. Those using it use it just as readily.

One can have a pretty good understanding and have the term used against them by somebody who does not understand too.

Whatever happened to just saying somebodies opinion or thought was misguided or incorrect?


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          What are people's thoughts on this term? I think it's become fashionable to write off any attempt towards political correctness with a SJW label. I think it's become dismissive and mocking, and personally I hate it.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          I think it has its place. And that those who cant handle it are just the people it is targeting. Overly PC. (I am partially kidding and partially teasing, I don't want to insult you if you feel this way).

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Isn't the last part PC though? I think that is the point that the railing against PC culture ignores.



    Quote:
    I don't think anyone is railing over being PC...its just many people are tired of the Over-PC culture that is sweeping the country.


Isn't that contradictory? If they are tired of what they see as overally PC culture and are acting out than it would be railing against it.

I mean Trump in part ran on that platform. So a fair number of people agree. Still does not make it right or wrong but I think the idea that people are not going against it or trying to is mistaken.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Many who use SJW are just as happy to insult people or morso than anybody else. They use it like conservatives accused liberals of using the race card.



    Quote:
    And just like liberals accuse conservatives of hating people of different races?


That is pretty much what I said, so yes. Although, in either context it may be correct in situations.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        It can be very dismissive, but so is sarcasm and words llke for instance "man-splaining"...however for some reason those are accepted.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          For me I do use the word...usually when I feel someone is being hypocritical, ridiculous or too extreme. For example. Some of those colleges where comedians are not even to tell a silly joke because its not PC and someone's feelings might be hurt...these students are missing a fundamental principle behind almost all humor. It's based on pain.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Not all jokes are funny though. And sensibilities change over time. Watch humor from around the 30's. A fair bit of it is racist by our modern standards.



    Quote:
    So? Should they be denied the right to free speech? If it bothers you don't buy a ticket or walk out. But when you start throwing riots over a joke you didn't like...YOU are the problem. (I don't me you specifically I mean this in a general you).


Not supporting riots or anything, but both would be speech. Starting a riot would not be protected. The person could be escorted out.

You still did not address my point at all about changing times and comedy. The "so" deflects the question but seems to ignore realities of comedy and situations.

What is acceptable changes over time and can be arbitrary. And just because a person has a right to say something does not mean it is ok either. The KKK has freedom of speech too. Does not make what they say acceptable on a societal level.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      For instance, it is one thing for a comedian to stand up and pose differences between say black people and white people or men and women. Usually major generalities that are not totally correct but are often amusing.



    Quote:
    Oh? It is? If I want to make fun of how black people say certain words I can without the same PC backlash as how black comedians mimic white people? No I cant. But I wouldn't not ever tell a black comedian he cant do so.


It depends on how you say it. Comedy is very much in the eye of the viewer but at the same time there are some people that are better about not coming off as mean spirited in comparisons or gags about that sort of things.

I am not sure why you are so concerned with protecting all comedians. As they are not all created equal. Some people may think a pretty crude rant is hilarious. That does not mean that it is not horribly offensive either or that most people would be uncomfortable hearing it.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      One has to know the audience and the audience has to know what they are getting into. However, there have been cases of comedians saying some pretty bad stuff and they were rightfully heckled about it.



    Quote:
    We arnt talking heckling.


I am unaware of many riots occurring at stand up comedy clubs but maybe I am wrong.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      I feel I just would have left if it bothered me that much but whatever.

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:
            I recognize that there are people who can go to far in their pursuit of political correctness, and those people are probably rightly deserving of mockery. But by and large, I think political correctness exists to show empathy for people who aren't like you, and I think that's a good thing.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            Waaaayyyy too far imo. Comedians are being told what jokes are PC enough to be told and we feel we need to hand out 12th place prizes to kids because there feelings might be hurt at not winning.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Are they? Still seems to be pretty raunching and racy comedy out there. At least the last time I watched stand up.



    Quote:
    As long as it meets the PC standards and mocks the correct allowable PC agreed upon people that can be made fun of.


Not really, you just need to know your audience. Some were always offended by the Daily Show. Know the audience you are going for and it is alright.

Your premise is that only liberals or leftists are PC. That is not true at all. The sensibilities are just somewhat different. See a stand up mocking religion and there is usually a backlash too.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      The last part is also a bit amusing to me. As many of those now screaming about PC culture were the ones that started that trend in the first place. Kids are not dumb, they know if they won or loss.



    Quote:
    That's a sweeping and completely false statement. It's completely an artifact of PC culture to hand out 12th place prizes.


Is it? Millenials in particularly grew up in this sort of world. Their parents and older were the ones that started the trend of giving these things. They are now rallying against it.

If we are talking generalities it seems fine to me. We pretend it is recent but it goes back a ways. It is pretty selective reasoning to pretend it is a recent thing.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      However, that can go too far one way can't it? You also do not want to teach kids that you are either the winner or the loser. There are all sorts of things in there. In life most of us lose more than we win, or at least tend to remember those more.



    Quote:
    Actually I think its very important to be able to know you lost. I don't know about you but losing often motivated me to put more effort in next time. It's also an important lesson that you realize being the 12th best shampoo maker in a small city...you are not going to get a reward.


No, but the if your not first your last mentality is over the top too.

You pointed out 12th place above but unless the contest was massive I generally only remember maybe going out to third or so. Others may have gotten participation trophies or something. Which about everybody knew was a joke anybody.

I do agree that children are not allowed to fail enough but I also think that as a society failure is greatly frowned on. We only talk about winners. Most of the backlash I see from those with this sort of view, at least from my facebook feed, seems to be along the lines that people need to suck it up but also that failure is unacceptable.

It is perfectly fine to fail, but what failure or loss means is variable on the situation. Being the third best in a given area is probably just fine.

Sometimes in fact, no matter how hard you try it will not matter too.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Words people use to cause hate or the sheer purpose of hurting someone...yes we should try to be PC and avoid such things. If we see injustices in the world we should feel free to speak up and say "This is WRONG". But to me SJW are those who take this too far, and actually strangle freedom of speech and try to coerce you to their way of thinking and attempt to manipulate your mind and take away independent thought.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        I tried to make this point a bit below, but I disagree with some of this. As I have seen many also use the term to dismiss speech too. Many times if a reasonable point is made.



    Quote:
    Well the term SJW really doesnt apply to them does it? SJW applies to those who follow and spout their ideology without understanding anything about it...I am sure there are more than a few terms used against others that seem OK to the PC SJW's...like Bible Thumper and so on.


Yet, you ignore the people using it the way I am describing and pretend that it does not happen. They are using it. If it applies or not does not matter.

Saying that there is something for religion hardly makes much of a difference to the point at hand unless you want to discuss some of the hypocrisy. Everybody is offended by something. It just depends on the person.

And your assumption that a given person has no idea what they are talking about is not always true.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          At its worst, I think the SJW label is used to justify prejudices and racism. I would like this term to disappear entirely.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Yes....sadly some use it this way for sure. And its terrible. But racism is not restricted to only one group. Sadly everyone is racist. It's something we each and every one of us needs to fight against, as in fight against our own inner darkness. Not everyone is racist to the same level, some people learn to overcome this fully even I believe. But anyone who says they are not racist or "cannot" be racist are the most racist of all.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        I agree with most of this, but I think the levels are worth pointing out. It is an inner struggle for some people, for many that use this term with abandon it is not. Many of the people with the views that could be considered the most racist are those that see no problem with what they are saying.



    Quote:
    Indeed...from all sides. Some people just wont ever see they are racist no matter how thy act. Permanent blinders on themselves. This is true of every group.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      And there are many of those people that will throw this word out or things like snowflake casually.

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          The reason SJW is so offensive imho to many is they sense the truth behind it...not saying its completely true, simply that there is some validity behind its use...and ugly truths make us uncomfortable.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          One could say this for many things though. One could be offended that their opinion is just being cast aside and they are being dismissed out of turn.



    Quote:
    Odd that...wonder if certain groups feel the same way about the overly zealous PC crowd towards them?


I am not actually defending some of the comments that I find on the extreme end of things. I have seen various people be wrong with whatever ideology.

I have issue with the defense of SJW that it can be used constructively. There are many such words but SJW is the topic of the thread.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      IMO, that is the more offensive part of it.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Going after aspects of PC culture is something I think is needed but the battle against it has also gone too far. There are many examples that think PC should die and they should be able to say whatever they want and let their worst impulses out.



    Quote:
    I have heard many examples of the PC crowd doing the same against others. Every side is throwing rocks. I have heard more than a few jokes about the recent shooting at the baseball practice game...on how it was a good start. This behavior is not limited to certain members of the anti-PC movement.


I am not, but I have not heard what is PC. It is a fairly arbitrary guideline of what is acceptable. And I could post links using attacks on PC culture as reasons to justify whatever anger filled thing they have.

I agree that it can go too far but at the same time the whole going against PC culture is almost going against the laws of decency at times. The whole thing is very very subjective. And it is often used when somebody is offended and too lazy to do anything better.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      PC at the core is not being a jerk to other people and taking other people's feelings into account.



    Quote:
    When done as it should be. It moved beyond this however.


To some extent, but there are many who will use it as an excuse to any aspect they do not agree with. Making it, in their minds, ok. It is still not.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Would one have gone into a room of Holocaust survivors and just start making jokes about it? No, that would be horrible and in bad taste. To me that is what being PC is about more than anything.



    Quote:
    Of course...except some SJW's would have no problem making a joke about how shooting Republican Senators is a good start.


And vice versa. I find both unacceptable.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      The issue still breaks down into what one person sees as a valid opinion or not and shutting down someone else's. Heck, I have seen creationists use this term (SJW) on threads in facebook to attack anybody believing in evolution. It is used pretty poorly in many paces.



    Quote:
    I don't have a very high opinion personally of creationists so this does not surprise me. This comes across to me as them not understanding either the SJW because they are a bunch of bible thumpers. (I think I offended both sides with this comment ;P)


It is just an example to an extreme but I have seen others. If one goes by the various logics than should their opinions have equal voice? They could make the same general arguments.

Without good definitions and agreement people use it for whatever. It is the same as the whole Fake News nonsense that is now used to dismiss anything that disagrees.








Look Raist bunnies...
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 54.0 on Windows 7
Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2017 Powermad Software
All the content of these boards Copyright © 1996-2017 by Alvaro Ortiz and Dave Galanter. Software Copyright © 2003-2017 Powermad Software