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Subj: Re: Regarding that mess in Virginia
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 at 12:22:09 am EDT (Viewed 157 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Regarding that mess in Virginia
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 at 03:37:32 pm EDT (Viewed 201 times)
Quote:So which side did the killing again? Only the alt-right side. I don't see how you can be a Jesus Fan while defending racists. I can't believe I'm quoting Mitt Romney: No, not the same. One side is racist, bigoted, Nazi. The other opposes racism and bigotry. Morally different universes.
Quote:This is no defense of the opinions of the nazi group, they are an ugly stain on humanity. But you either believe in right to free speech, or you don't. The nazi group, as repugnant as I find what they were saying, had every right to be there.
Quote:The Antifa group, as counter protesters, also had every right to be there.
Quote:But both groups were planning this violence. They both showed up with helemts, guns, bats and clubs. They both wanted that fight. The moral preening against nazis is overbearing. These are not actual nazis from WWII. They are ignorant people with horrible, vomitus opinions. And you don't have to agree with their opinion to acknowledge the other side was there to cause violence.
Quote:Only the nazi group killed someone. But everyone seems to have arrived at the opinion that the murder of Heather Heyer excuses the violence of the Antifa group. Antifa are a very violent organization, and they put put multiple innocent bystanders in the hospital that day. Why is that being ignored in the conversation?
Quote:Those who admire nazis are bad people, yes, but that doesn't automatically make anyone they are fighting morally superior.
Quote:Antifa should be and has been condemned for their violence. BUT for anyone to equivocate that antifa is JUST AS BAD as neo-Nazis is either on the neo-Nazis' side or don't have a very strong moral sense.
So because of my opinion above, I am either on the neo-nazi's side, or I don't have a strong moral sense? It's impossible that you and I simply disagree?
Or is it that because we disagree that I should be personally attacked?
Antifa's violence was on full display in Boston. They are in many cases violence junkies. When there was no group of neo-nazis in Boston, Antifa threw rocks and bottles of urine at police. One officer was verbally assaulted as a "black bitch".
Antifa is a very violent organization. That is a fact. Nazi groups are an ugly stain on humanity. We agree on that. Saying both sides were violent that day in Charlottesville does not make me a neo-nazi. Actions of violence on neo-nazis does not automatically make someone a hero, especially when those people are throwing rocks and urine at police a few days later.
The full picture of how the fighting started might never be known. From what I've been able to learn, small, unrelated skirmishes likely occurred at various locations in and around the park. Some on the left are known to have started fights. Some of the nazi group are known to have started fights.
So in the fights started by Antifa, they inflicted violence on someone because they disagreed with the person's thoughts and opinion. They used violence to shut down free speech. As ugly and as those opinions and words were, it is no excuse for violence. I will repeat myself from above, you either believe in free speech, or you don't.
Antifa is known for shutting down speakers they disagree with on campuses. They start fires, break windows, and threaten harm to those attending. They claim to be against violence, yet inflict violence on people whose opinion they don't like, and against the police. They claim to be anti fascists, yet use violence to shut down college speakers they don't want others to hear.
Antifa went to Charlotteville looking for violence. As did the nazi group. Both seem to have started various pockets of fighting. They are both to blame for the violence. Saying so doesn't mean I am on the side of neo-nazis. I am on neither side of these moronic groups. I simply believe violence against people because of their beliefs, regardless of how ugly those beliefs are, is wrong.
If you disagree, that's fine. I'm not going to call you names or question your morality.