Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,127
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 28,340
Subj: Re: A response to Jesusfan.
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 at 08:51:16 am EDT (Viewed 545 times)
Reply Subj: Re: A response to Jesusfan.
Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 at 04:57:37 pm EDT (Viewed 591 times)

    Humans cloning, and us using tech on animals and plants is not evolution natural selection, and again, when in nature has there ever been a species change, from kitten to a dog?

I think there is a little bit of confusion on what a species is here.

"a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus and denoted by a Latin binomial, e.g., Homo sapiens."

Biologically a species is a broad area. It really just requires the interchange of genes. Now, what I said before is not totally correct as I worded it poorly with my intention, but I will explain.

A wolf and a dog are technically the same species but are still very different animals. They are capable of breeding with one another. But, at the same time the dog is a very different animal than a wolf. Size, temperament and so on and so forth are all very different. Why?

Because people picked the animals they wanted to move along the way. We selected who would breed and who would not. Changing the organism. This is the same thing done for livestock, plants and so on. The only difference is we are guiding the selection process other than natural forces. We are pushing our desires on what we want, an intelligent design of sorts.


A fairly straightforward article on the matter. True specialization often takes a long time. And this definition starts to fall apart a bit in microbes.

No tech is required, just picking the animal or plant with desired qualities and letting them breed and then provide them with resources to thrive and go on while not providing them to others. That is pretty much what evolution gets at. Using technology would still be evolution, just more guided. It is still the same principle of selection. All the genetic modification is doing is changing the starting point. And the methods use are dependent on the natural process of DNA biochemistry or expression.

A kitten and a dog would meet the definition of species as laid out in the broadest terms but consider how long ago that divergence happened. Based oh phylogenetics it was a while ago. True specialization of larger animals takes a fairly long time. It is faster in plants, microbes and simple animals because they replicate faster and have many generations in short periods.

Larger animals have longer lives and are harder to observe directly. However, we can observe based on DNA structure, sequence and so on. Most animals and even plants and other things have many core genes in common that are used in mostly the same way. And what we currently call life uses the same general methods of gene expression etc (with variances on it depending on the organism).

One simple explanation is a group of animals are isolate on an island. Over time, they change compared to what the mainland type of animal they came from until they can no longer breed with the land animals. This takes a while but it has been recorded in the fossil record and genetic studies comparing animals. Marcupials are a great example of this.

I recommend the following resource


It does a pretty good job of explaining the process.

Look Raist bunnies...
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