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Post By
bd2999

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,071
In Reply To
atrimus

Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,757
Subj: Re: Regarding that mess in Virginia
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 at 01:06:44 pm EDT (Viewed 70 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Regarding that mess in Virginia
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 at 12:01:07 pm EDT (Viewed 68 times)



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          There were HUNDREDS of the left socialist groups, you know, the very ones that rioted and caused all of that damage on inaguration day!

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            Just saying that both the extreme right AND left were willing to fight to the death there...

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          Okay. But trying to equate these two sides to one another only serves to validate supremacy (be it white or otherwise) as a respectable ideology, which it isn't. History has shown that going down this road ends in a massive detriment to society.

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            There's no moral ambiguity between white supremacists and the people who protest against them, and if you're taking a neutral position between the two then you're pretty much part of the problem.

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        I disagree. Joseph Stalin killed more nazis than anyone. I'm referring to actual nazis, not the ignorant, racist, antisemetic low-lives we saw on display in Charlottesville. There was certainly moral abiguity when Stalin rolled tanks into Poland and "freed" them from nazis. An extreme case to be sure, but the point is made that there can be moral ambiguity, and not everyone who is punching a nazi is a hero.



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    Of course there's no moral ambiguity where Stalin is concerned. He entered into a pact with Hitler, a pact he was committed to until the Nazis invaded Russia. Stalin killing Nazis was a matter of Russia's continued existence; he certainly wasn't fighting them in opposition to their white supremacy views or their attempt to commit genocide against the Jews.



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      The Antifa thugs are known for violence. They showed up looking for violence. This was not the case of a peace full group of local people, who once being pushed by the nazi group pushed back.



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    I honestly can't speak on Antifa, as I haven't read much about them. As far as I know they're anti-fascists who meet fascism's history of violence with their own violence.


From what I have been able to dig up this sounds right but they are not a unified order or anything. Some of them are about that, others are anarchists or nearly so. They are not really a uniform group at all.


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      I am 100% not validating (as you claim) supremacy as a respectable ideology by believing in the right to free speech for those I vehemently disagree with. They should be shunned by everyone, they should be ignored and mocked. Their repugnant ideas should be opposed with enlightened speech. But violence against people who's opinions we don't like is not the answer.



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    "Their repugnant ideas should be opposed with enlightened speech." We've been trying this for decades, to futile ends.



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    If you're black, or Jewish, or Mexican, or Muslim then these groups represent a fundamental threat to your existence in this country, a country that many of our relatives and ancestors bled and/or died for. What's more, these groups' ideologies are unchanged from their progenitors, thus they should share the same blood on their hands ... thousands of lynched blacks and millions of Holocaust victims. Basically, their ideology and methods are far too deadly to be treated as mere opinion.


This is totally true. At best, that holds those sorts of feelings at bay but the idea that suddenly all ideas should be discussed openly (as if we can ignore past issues and reasons why things changed) does little to help.

Many people will happily go to their worst impulses under various conditions. Enlightened and high minded talk sounds good. But it rarely does the job. It is depressing but it is true too.




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